Any legal problems from pointing a laser sight if I am confronted?

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cjwils

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Several times in recent years, in this and other forums, I have seen discussions about firing warning shots if you catch a burglar in your house, are confronted by a violent assailant, etc. I will not go into the details now, but generally, the advice has been that warning shots are a bad idea, and you could get into serious legal trouble by firing a warning shot. I have started to wonder about something that may or may not be legally viewed as a similar situation. What if I catch a burglar in my house, or am confronted by a violent assailant while I am out in public, and I try to scare him away by drawing my carry gun and pointing the laser sight in his direction? I suspect that many assailants would stop and either surrender or try to escape if they saw my laser pointed at their chest or at the wall in front of their face. But could I get myself into legal trouble by doing that?

It is another question as to how assailants in the real world have been seen to react when confronted by a laser gunsight. I will ask that question in the General Discussion section, since that is not a legal issue.
 
The first issue--and it is a legal one--arises with drawing the gun itself. Unless one is lawfullly justified in doing so, that would constitute a crime of varying severity, depending upon the jurisdiction.

In the house? Justification varies. In many states, a resident is presumed to have been seriously threatened if someone has entered unlawfully, and perhaps with force.

Out in public? What is he doing, and what have you done?

Browse around in the ST&T Sticky Library.
 
For the sake of discussion, let's assume that I am legally justified in drawing the gun. Would I have any additional legal concerns about pointing the laser sight?
 
cjwils said:
For the sake of discussion, let's assume that I am legally justified in drawing the gun. Would I have any additional legal concerns about pointing the laser sight?
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If you believe yourself to be confronted with a deadly threat, and that under your state laws you are exercising reasonable and necessary force to respond, you should not. Especially if it is inside your residence.

However, out in public? We do NOT draw our firearms to "scare" an adversary away. We only draw a firearm when no other options to stop the threat exist.
 
No. The gun would be enough--possibly leading to conviction for aggravated assault, which is what was once called attempted murder.

Justification will hinge on more than your testimony alone. Hiss having been in your residence and any signs of breakage would help. Do be the first to call it in.

Do you think that people look a their chests for little dots of light in such circumstances?
 
I think you are projecting what you see in the movies about laser sights to a real life defensive situation. Most people are not going to notice your little laser dot. Shine it in their eyes so they notice it will leave you open to charges if you damage the intruder's eyes. Lasers have two tactical uses, 1: to use as an aiming point if you are using passive night vision devices, 2: to verify your aim if you are having to shoot from an unconventional shooting position where you can't really get a good sight picture. You're better off with a very bright white light.
 
cjwils said:
What if I catch a burglar in my house, or am confronted by a violent assailant while I am out in public, and I try to scare him away by drawing my carry gun and pointing the laser sight in his direction? I suspect that many assailants would stop and either surrender or try to escape if they saw my laser pointed at their chest or at the wall in front of their face.
Click to expand...

If you are thinking of scaring someone away (either a burglar or assailant), then you probably do NOT perceive that you are in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm. Absent a deadly threat, in many places, you're not justified in threatening with YOUR deadly weapon.

Self-defense with a deadly weapon is called for only "In the Gravest Extreme" for a reason.

(The original https://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extr...3685406&sprefix=in+the+gravest,aps,349&sr=8-1

and the updated version

https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force...3685472&sprefix=in+the+gravest,aps,349&sr=8-2)

You really need to read one or both of these books. Or study any of the many other available sources of reliable information about the law of self-defense. Or take a class like MAG40. Or all of them.


Note to mods: shouldn't this be in legal? Also, didn't we once have a sticky covering "When can I draw?"
 
luzyfuerza said:
If you are thinking of scaring someone away (either a burglar or assailant), then you probably do NOT perceive that you are in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm.
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Rigth.
luzyfuerza said:
You really need to read one or both of these books. Or study any of the many other available sources of reliable information about the law of self-defense. Or take a class like MAG40. Or all of them.
Click to expand...
And take the Law of Self Defense course.
luzyfuerza said:
Note to mods: shouldn't this be in legal?
Click to expand...
See the descriptions of the two forums. What is lawful is integral to strategy and tactics.
luzyfuerza said:
Also, didn't we once have a sticky covering "When can I draw?"
Click to expand...
It is in the ST&T Sticky Library.
 
cjwils said:
Several times in recent years, in this and other forums, I have seen discussions about firing warning shots if you catch a burglar in your house, are confronted by a violent assailant, etc. I will not go into the details now, but generally, the advice has been that warning shots are a bad idea, and you could get into serious legal trouble by firing a warning shot. I have started to wonder about something that may or may not be legally viewed as a similar situation. What if I catch a burglar in my house, or am confronted by a violent assailant while I am out in public, and I try to scare him away by drawing my carry gun and pointing the laser sight in his direction? I suspect that many assailants would stop and either surrender or try to escape if they saw my laser pointed at their chest or at the wall in front of their face. But could I get myself into legal trouble by doing that?

It is another question as to how assailants in the real world have been seen to react when confronted by a laser gunsight. I will ask that question in the General Discussion section, since that is not a legal issue.
Click to expand...

You've got absolutely no business trying to "scare somebody away." You are either justified in using deadly force or you're not.
 
cjwils said:
What if I catch a burglar in my house, or am confronted by a violent assailant while I am out in public, and I try to scare him away by drawing my carry gun and pointing the laser sight in his direction? I suspect that many assailants would stop and either surrender or try to escape .
Click to expand...

Trying to scare them? You lose time which may get you seriously hurt or killed.
Surrender? Criminals are anticipated to give up whatever weapons they have and surrender to you. :rofl:

Watch some examples where people are not "scared" (they don't quit) despite that they are being shot:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/do-examples-incidents-matter-to-you.902897/
 
cjwils said:
I try to scare him away by drawing my carry gun and pointing the laser sight in his direction?
Click to expand...

This assumes a lot.

1. Drawing a gun to "scare someone away" is a really bad idea. It's been my experience that a bunch of those hood rats don't scare.

cjwils said:
I suspect that many assailants would stop and either surrender or try to escape if they saw my laser pointed at their chest or at the wall in front of their face.
Click to expand...

I suspect that you are going to be very unpleasantly surprised the first time you try that.

cjwils said:
But could I get myself into legal trouble by doing that?
Click to expand...

That is entirely dependent upon the totality of the circumstances but generally if you tell the cops you drew with the intent to "Scare the bad guy away" you're going to jail.

Deadly force is either justified or it's not. If it's not don't draw.
 
Yup. If you can legally point a gun at someone, you can also point the laser sight on it at them. If you can't legally point a gun at them, then, obviously, pointing the laser sight on the gun at them is also illegal.

Look at your local laws, because they vary from one area to another.

In TX, for example, you can display a gun under circumstances where it would be illegal to fire the gun in self-defense and also probably illegal to actually point it at someone.
 
If you point a lazer at someone who is presenting a deadly threat to you, I'd think he is now going to kill you if there is any way he possibly can.

If you point a lazer on your weapon at someone who may be no threat to you, then I'd think he is probably going to kill you if there is any way possible he can AND he will be justified to do so. Only reason for pointing a firearm at someone lazer or not is if you intend to kill them.
 
Laser sighting devices haven't been in the hands of "civilians" long enough to be tested in the courts to establish a precedence for its level of threat different from the gun itself! :)

After all it hasn't even recognized by the left as requiring a permit, separate tax of regulation! :)

As mentioned above once you have made the decision that deadly force is necessary to eliminate a threat a laser device is irrelevant!

The decision to use deadly force is the subject of other threads!
 
Jeff White said:
I think you are projecting what you see in the movies about laser sights to a real life defensive situation.
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shafter said:
A person might not even see the laser dot on their chest if their head is up and looking towards you.
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^These.

Im not going to comment on when a firearm should be drawn as that's been covered, but laser dots...In movies, somehow there is a sniper using one of these from a distance, and every time the person looks down and spots a dot on their chest. Or it's foggy and you can see the laser moving around the area. It's for effect not practicality. I'll be shooting towards your laser or flashlight anyway.

They have their role. But intimidation isn't it. Worst case, it'll give out your location.
 
What is with the obsession of scaring bad guys with a gun? It is a sure way to get killed. When you are in fear for your life fair play and a fair fight do not apply.
The only time you should bring a firearm in to play is when you are going to use deadly force and use it immediately.
The first clue the bad guy should have that you are armed is when holes start appearing in them.
 
If they where scared to begin with they wouldn’t have broke into your house. Or accosted you in the street. Some folks don’t care if they live or die. Most criminals don’t care. Not all but the vast majority do not. And they don’t care if you live or die. So if you have to draw it’s time to defend yourself. If they are just hassling you. Then maybe less lethal is the way to go. And it’s a big MAYBE. You can be charged for pepper spraying someone. And proving you are in the right can cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands.
 
Didn't read the thread but based on the title, about a half second after aiming a Lazer site you should be sending a bullet.

If the premise is lighting someone up for intimidation I'd suggest you rethink and maybe seek some training and legal advice.
 
I suspect you’ll not get far with the argument that you were only pointing the laser to scare the bad guy away in an attempt to avoid a brandishing charge, especially when it’s attached to your carry weapon at the time....

If there is a need to draw, it better be the same reason to shoot. If it’s not don’t draw, laser paint or fire warning shots.
 
Your opponent will not have read your screenplay, before the incident, and no special-effects artist will be there, to paint that glowing red or green line through the air, so, the bad guy will be blissfully unaware of your laser. He will not know that he is supposed to be scared.

I was issued Tasers, for a number of years, which had lasers, for sighting. I have not equipped any of my defensive weapons with lasers.

Pointing the muzzle of a firearm, at any person, without legally-acceptable justification, is a crime.
 
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