Re thinking a laser for EDC

[JohnBiltz]

I still believe in the K.I.S.S. theory. Shoot what you carry till you're proficient with it. After accuracy comes speed. Do it till it becomes second nature without thinking.

You respond to a crisis the way you train. You revert to what you practiced.
If you train and depend on a laser( you light it and become a target) or RDS ,what happens if it fails?
Things powered by batteries tend to fail just when you don't want them to
.Plan "B"?
Have you ever tried to track a moving target with a laser? Your concentration leans towards keeping the dot on the target, not what the target is doing.
How much technology do you want to depend on over your own pure ability?
My vote is on my abilities.

I will say I've had some fun using a weapons mounted IR laser and night vision gear but that brings us back to putting too much dependence on technology.

See this where I think people are not thinking logically, what self defense situation are you in where the person attacking does not know where you are? I can think of one but that is home defense. I can see the point perhaps if you are a LEO, but a private citizen? I don't creep toward trouble, I avoid it.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Well.. if the BG hasn't seen you, then there's a posibility your position is not yet known esp if you hide behind cover. Once the BG sees the beam from your laser, your position is already compromised.

I'm neither for or against lasers. I've never had them on my carry weapons. Like any other accessory they have their purposes and advantages when used properly.

In low light shooting, this can be an advantage or disadvantage. Only you can really judge for yourself if it will be helpful for each particular situation. If you practice enough with it, I'm sure it can be very helpful in the dark.

What situation would this be where you draw your weapon with the intention of shooting and the bad guy does not know where you are. I'd really like to hear one you could defend in court justifying why you did not deescalate the situation. Anything outside of your home and you are in a state with a Castle Doctrine and I think you go to jail.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Something that I haven't seen discussed would be the possible use of a high-power green laser to blind an assailant... I know, not directly gun related, but something to think about.

There are several likely reasons that hasn't been discussed. Attempting to deliberately blind a person with a weapon-mounted laser in a situation where shooting is justified is a low return approach to solving the problem, to put it mildly. It sounds like one more version of the fallacy some people cling to, that it's possible the shoot someone "just a little bit."

And if shooting is not justified, neither is blinding someone with a high-powered laser. Even the "low powered" red lasers used as aiming devices are not deemed to be eye safe and bear warning labels to that effect.

 

[Odd Job]

I can see the utility of a laser in circumstances where you cannot get a straight line from your eye to the weapon sight to the target. But in cases where you can aim directly, I don't think you are going to get any speed advantage in a self defense scenario where your target is at an unknown distance and is moving.
I tried a laser recently on a Walther P22 and I couldn't make any more accurate hits with it in the traditional shooting stance than compared with the iron sights at 10 yards. That was on an indoor range with a black-backed target.

I concede that if I had the gun tucked up against my flank and I was leaning against a wall I could get a very steady hold from the hip or abdomen, but that isn't how I anticipate employing a gun in a self defense scenario. If it gets up close and personal and I'm firing from retention, I am not going to be looking for a dot...

There is one application of the laser that I am considering and that is (believe it or not) for my crossbow. I have a lot of female friends who like this crossbow and enjoy shooting it but it is front-heavy and they can't support it steadily enough to make accurate hits whilst standing. In addition it is not an ideal bench weapon. I can see a laser being useful on that, as the crossbow is fired at a maximum range of 40 yards and can be fired from a two-handed grip at hip level. These are stationary targets and the laser will be seen clearly at that distance.

 

[JustinJ]

My green viridian is perfectly visible in all lighting conditions except bright sunlight but even then it can be found out to about 10 yards.

Personally i find mini red dots to be more valuable in increasing speed and accuracy but there aren't too many great options for concealed carry with them.

 

[bubba in ca]

Never used a laser sighted gun and my HD piece is a shotgun, but it seems to me that one of the few uses for a laser would be in the dark where you can see your target but not see your sights. But I would put the big training proviso on it--train with it and train for when it breaks.

Another comment--in a mass murder scene like in CO, the perp is probably on spray and pray mode more wrapped up in his own ego that the specifics of what is going on. He wouldn`t see you, your gun, or your laser anymore than anything else. Either you hit him good or he hits you as just another fish in the barrel.

 

[One_Jackal]

I would rather have a light mounted on a pistol than a laser. On a shotgun the laser/light combo is very effective. I have a light and a laser on my Maverick 88. My wife went out and put cans in areas where we have a safe backstop. I went out not knowing where the cans were or how many. No one timed me but in a very short amount of time I located the cans and hit them all first shot with a slug.

There are a lot of situations you just can't practice for with a shotgun. A laser is a crutch to help me through those situations. It's hard to practice shooting a shotgun laying or sitting in bed. There are places in everyone's house that it would be difficult to mount a shotgun.

 

[JN01]

He wouldn`t see you, your gun, or your laser anymore than anything else. Either you hit him good or he hits you as just another fish in the barrel.

Except that in a smoky environment, that laser is going to create a bright, neon path straight to you.

 

[RobNDenver]

Every one of my EDC pistols either has a laser or a Streamlight (one) installed. When I recently went to qualify for my LEOSA permit again, I wasn't the only one who had one. I use the CTC Side Activated laser sights on everything but my P232 and P239. Those have an activiation switch on the front strap, which I don't like quite so much.

Having the laser allows me to fire from the hip ,at the close ready position, while on the ground and of course using a standard weaver stance with far more precision than without this tool.

All in all, I'd much rather have a laser than not.

and

 

[HeadJunter]

Here's a test I did at the Rogers Shooting School a few years back.
http://youtu.be/C_QQbX9jW4Y
I scored 63 out of 69 possible. I can say for sure that without the laser I would have scored no better than about 23 with the iron sights, night sights or not. More likely it would have been about 12-15. That's a noticeable performance improvement.

This is a test I did in the daylight at a distance similar to the Florida Internet Cafe shooting.
http://youtu.be/VjuLAix4oUY

I've also shot the IDPA Classifier in the daylight with a CT laser and my time was about the same as with the irons. However, my groups on the targets were much tighter so my overall score was much better than with the irons. It seems counter-intuitive but when you think about it, the sight radius of a laser equipped weapon is the distance to the target.

In the end, I will just have to echo Ken Hackathorn's statement. "There are a lot of things I can do with the laser that I just can't do without it."

You do have to know how to manipulate the trigger. That's still the major stumbling block for most shooters. People tend to work the trigger the same way a drag racer uses his gas pedal. A laser won't help with that problem.

 

[OcelotZ3]

There are several likely reasons that hasn't been discussed. Attempting to deliberately blind a person with a weapon-mounted laser in a situation where shooting is justified is a low return approach to solving the problem, to put it mildly. It sounds like one more version of the fallacy some people cling to, that it's possible the shoot someone "just a little bit."

And if shooting is not justified, neither is blinding someone with a high-powered laser. Even the "low powered" red lasers used as aiming devices are not deemed to be eye safe and bear warning labels to that effect.

Actually, I was referring to a high-power green laser *alone*, not on a weapon. The reason I brought it up was that if one were in a theater, with a legal no-firearms allowed sign, then using a laser pointer on a shooting assailant to blind him just might be an option.

 

[unwise11]

^^^ Is that a joke? I hope so..

Theoretically, if I was a gunman attacking people, and you shined my eye with a laser, I would just shoot you.

Better off just hiding and hoping he doesn't find you at that point.

The situation could have only been resolved with someone having their EDC and being very good with it.

 

[Kleanbore]

Post #35

...has me thinking.

When I took my CCW class several years ago, my instructor (Dan Smith of Top Gun in Arnold, MO) told my that his defensive firearms were Glocks with lasers. Since at the time he was a competitive shooter with 1911 pistols without lasers, that wasn't because he could not shoot with iron sights.

I then bought a Model 442 Centennial with CT grip. Good thing, too--the sights are awful, for me anyway.

I supplemented that firearm with a Smith & Wesson M&P 9c. My intention was to order a CT grip, but I discovered after the fact that my model with the ambidextrous safety can neither be equipped with the CT grip nor modified to accept one. I talked directly with someone at S&W. The model with both the CT grip and manual safety had been discontinued.

The Centennial has been retired from primary carry. I just acquired a new Ruger SR9c, which I like. It seems to punish my hand less than either Smith.

I think HeadJunter has just talked me into putting a CT laser on it.

That limits holster choice. It just might motivate me to have two Rugers.