Any NFA items confiscated by local PD for no reason?

[DHJenkins]

I've always heard that if you have NFA items, you should carry a copy of your tax stamp, include your last name in your trust, etc... I've tried googling this, but all I get were stories of people who had their stuff confiscated due to domestic violence, possible suicide, etc...

I haven't found any stories about someone at the range, at a gun show or a traffic stop where a local PD took it upon themselves to confiscate an "illegal" weapon while nothing else was happening.

This ties into a question I have in the legal forum about what to name a trust for an SBR build.

So, do any of you have knowledge of a specific incident where someone got their toy(s) taken away by a LEO that doesn't know any better?

 

[medalguy]

Never heard of local police confiscating any NFA items. However, having said that, I always carry a copy of my registration paperwork with me any time I take my stuff out of the house. Always. Federal law states you must provide proof of registration and tax paid on demand of law enforcement. No sense making potential trouble for yourself. I keep copies of all my registration papers in my range bag, so that way I always have the papers with me and I never have to worry about leaving them at home.

Why wouldn't you keep the paperwork with you? Most LEO have little knowledge of anything NFA anyway. There are exceptions of course and some LEO are big fans, but admittedly not all.

 

[TRX]

Getting your Form 1 or Form 4 damaged or lost would be a hassle. I carry photocopies. The originals stay in the safe.

I've passed on a couple of machine gun shoots because the organizers wouldn't accept copies, even notarized ones. Their loss more than mine.

 

[Tirod]

I'd be less concerned with LEO's as others in the shooting sports. The advent of the Brace letter immediately led to reports of range operators and gunstore employees taking a distinctly overbearing and negative view on the issue of how to shoot an AR pistol. In most cases reported, they either tossed the shooter off the premises or refused services.

LEO's know their jurisdictional limits - our fellow shooters, no, they can and will go overboard in an egotistic demonstration of personal power.

And that is exactly how the Nazi party was able to keep the citizens in line during WWII - they officially anointed them at the neighborhood level and let them run free.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

 

[jmorris]

I haven't found any stories about someone at the range, at a gun show or a traffic stop where a local PD took it upon themselves to confiscate an "illegal" weapon while nothing else was happening.

Seems most people and law enforcement just don't know much about it.

I have had more than a few ask about it and even hooked up more than a few with trusts too. Kind of funny to me that an officer can't get a signature either.

I have ever carried an original, generally 1/4 scale laminated copies.

 

[rjrivero]

I brought my suppressors to 3 gun shoots, and squaded up with an FBI agent and deputy sheriff. Neither cared to see my form 4's at all. Now that the ATF is issuing PDF files, I carry them electronically in the cloud. If it's legit for the .gov to issue them electronically then it should be okay for me to display them electronically too....

 

[Aaron Baker]

Federal law states you must provide proof of registration and tax paid on demand of law enforcement.

Just to clarify: no, it doesn't. Federal law states you must provide proof of registration to the ATF if they ask. Tax stamps are tax documents, and are therefore afforded some privacy protections. Only the ATF really has the right to demand to see them.

With that said, this is a situation where standing firm on not showing them to local LEO will probably only get you more hassle. No reason not to show them to a cop if he asks, really. I just wanted to clarify what federal law actually requires.

Also, this is going to differ from state to state. In my state, there are no local laws that prohibit possession of NFA firearms, so there's nothing potentially illegal going on at a local level that would make a state trooper or sheriff care. But in some states, NFA firearms are illegal and possession of a federal tax stamp is an affirmative defense to the crime. In those states, the local LEOs do have a law to enforce, and so it makes sense for them to ask to see your paperwork.

But still, I've never heard of anyone getting their NFA firearms confiscated "just because."

"Name your trust using your last name" and "carry copies of your tax stamps" are good advice. But not mandatory. If you really want to, name your trust whatever you want. And I personally don't carry copies of my tax stamps, even though I advise people to do so.

Aaron

 

[joem1945]

I always carry a copy of my registration tax stamp. Original stays in a safe deposit box.

 

[1911 guy]

I've not heard about confiscation. I have heard, however, of ranges demanding to see proof of legal tax paid to use it on their facilities. Seems fair to me, their insurance and all.

 

[medalguy]

Aaron is correct. I intended the reference to tax paid and proof of registration to apply to federal agents, specifically BATF. But as he says, it is a really good idea to carry copies (NOT originals) with you, just in case.

As they say, you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

 

[Garrobo]

Local

cops probably don't have a clue what an NFA weapon is in the first place. To them, all semi-automatic rifles are choppers, assault weapons, etc.

 

[aarondhgraham]

LEO's know their jurisdictional limits

I laughed so hard I almost wet myself.

Aarond

.

 

[Ryanxia]

cops probably don't have a clue what an NFA weapon is in the first place. To them, all semi-automatic rifles are choppers, assault weapons, etc.

Pretty much this. Many don't even know what NFA stands for and more than once I've had to let an officer know that he needs paperwork before he cuts down the barrel on his personal XYZ rifle/shotgun (below 16"/18").

Rjrivero mentions a good point, they were issued electronically so theoretically we should be able to display them electronically.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I think it depends on where you live. I think most states that allow NFA items have police who are accustomed to interacting with people who conceal carry or open carry or are gun enthusiasts in one way or another. I know that machineguns and suppressors are a lot more rare to come across than someone conceal carrying, but most LEOs where I'm from will not bother someone about having an NFA item unless they're doing something else wrong (shooting street signs, committing a crime, etc).

Another thing, I know people on here always bash the ATF and FBI, but if you know any of the agents, a large number of them are also gun enthusiasts and think that all the waiting and rules are BS and hurt law-abiding citizens more than they do protect the public. I think people commonly suggest that every ATF agent wants to arrest everyone who has a gun.

With that being said, I carry a copy of my tax stamp for my NFA items just in case a LEO asks about my items. I figure that they're just doing they're job and making sure that nobody is breaking the law. While it is not legally required, I suspect it's just easier to inform them that I'm all legal and show them the paperwork. I do not disagree that you do not have to show a LEO your tax stamp, but I do not think it is worth causing a scene or not showing a piece of paper just based on principle. At least where I'm from, I doubt that anyone would bat an eye towards me if I'm shooting machineguns or suppressors and if they would, they would more than likely thank me and apologize once I presented my paperwork.

 

[Magnuumpwr]

Good thing to learn about your trust name, it will need to be engraved on your SBR/SBS or any other items you make. As to most city, county, or state police know very little about NFA items. An example of this, wife meets me at a gun show with my Glock 17 with the osprey suppressor attached. Two city cops sitting side by side, one putting a cinch tie through the mag well and the other telling him with a barrel that long he could shoot across the entire city! My wife elbowed me when she saw me start snickering.