Any small SA/DA 1911's?

[Col. Plink]

Was disappointed to find out Sig's 1911 Ultra Carry is SAO, as is the Springfield EMP. I don't get why a revision of the design wouldn't include this improvement...

So who makes compact 1911's in SA/DA (and .45)? Thanks in advance!

 

[Jim Watson]

Strange, the only EMP and Ultra Carry I have seen were SAO with proper thumb safeties.

If you make a double action gun, it isn't a 1911 any more.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

If you want a DA/SA .45, look into a Sig P220.

Odd that those 1911's are not SAO. Except for a Para 1911, I thought that SA was requirement for a 1911.

 

[Col. Plink]

Ok, I'll take the schooling; but still wonder why someone wouldn't make the improvement and alter the moniker. Seems a needless consistency...

 

[JamieC]

What improvement?

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

So you are looking for a compact 1911 in DA/SA chambered for 45acp?

I am not sure if you are looking for a 1911 anymore. 1911's are SAO. Kinda comes with the design...

Many here will not agree that DA/SA is an improvement on SAO.

 

[200Apples]

.
"Col. Plink" has to be one of the All-Time Greatest Gun Forum Usernames... lol. Ausgezeichnet!

Meanwhile, yes; a 1911 redesigned to be DA/SA would no longer be a 1911 that I would want, anyway.

One of the remarkable things about the 1911 (which may have been against Browning's original wishes for the design; the Army wanted another, additional safety added as the pistol was also to be used by mounted cavalry) is that it may be carried safely with a round in the chamber, cocked and locked.

There is no need! for the first trigger pull to charge the weapon. Correct me if I am wrong. I love this design.

 

[Gun Master]

Is anybody thinking about the Colt Double Eagle?

Also makes me think about the BHP FEG clone (Mauser 80) and FEG R-9 (Mauser 90 DA).

 

[Sergei Mosin]

The H&K USP Compact 45 and HK45 Compact are the closest thing to a DA/SA 1911 I can think of - single-stack .45 automatics with manual safeties and DA/SA trigger systems.

 

[Col. Plink]

Aha! I knew that at some point all things converge at CZ!

My point being that I have a lovely SA/DA .45 that is roughly 1911ish in my CZ-97. It is, however, extremely large for being full-size-double-stack.

But they don't make em small! So maybe my question is whether I have to go CZ-clone to get something like a 1911 that's compact and SA/DA?

 

[mgmorden]

But they don't make em small! So maybe my question is whether I have to go CZ-clone to get something like a 1911 that's compact and SA/DA?

Because truthfully, to a large degree DA/SA is an action design that has seen its heyday and is now fading (except in the competition world - eg, USPSA/IPSC Production - where it's seen a revival in the last few years).

Striker fired works better for the average shooter and the more experienced often want single action.

1911's are awesome specifically BECAUSE of that single action only trigger. It's pretty much the main draw of the gun. Asking for a 1911 with a DA/SA trigger is like complaining that Chevy doesn't make a 4-cylinder Camaro .

 

[surveyor]

Cz's and clones are the closest da/sa but they are not 1911's
The para lda is not really either, but its closer to a 1911 and the trigger is the same each time.
The 1911 is a sa, I never had an issue with that.

I don't consider a da/sa trigger on a 1911 or springfield emp an improvement that I would want. I enjoy them for what they are.

 

[JR24]

The H&K USP Compact 45 and HK45 Compact are the closest thing to a DA/SA 1911 I can think of - single-stack .45 automatics with manual safeties and DA/SA trigger systems.

Except that those are double stacks.

A small, single stack, DA/SA .45 ACP that feels close(ish) to a 1911.... the Sig P220 Compact is the only one that comes to mind.

I would love to see a CZ 97 in the 75 Compact size, that is something I would be all over. Sadly one does not exist as far as I am aware.

 

[JTQ]

Col. Plink wrote,
...in SA/DA...

For clarity, have you noticed you are the only one that keeps calling these SA/DA, while everybody else refers to the action as DA/SA? Most of these guns start out in DA with subsequent shots in SA. I can't think of any (surely there must be some) that start out as SA with subsequent shots as DA.

As has already been mention, one of the main characteristics of a 1911 is that it a single action semi-auto pistol. However, the ParaUSA LDA, as mentioned above, is close.

ParaUSA LDA http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/lda/ldaOfficer_45.php

 

[oldandslow]

dp,

As Gunmaster has said above there is a DA/SA 1911 pistol which is a single stack .45 which uses standard 1911 mags, the Colt Double Eagle. It apparently comes in Govt, Commander and Officer's sized model. I was looking at buying one but the reviews weren't particularly good. Punch "Colt Double Eagle" into Google and it will get you some good info.

Merry Christmas- oldandslow

 

[imashooter]

I can't think of any (surely there must be some) that start out as SA with subsequent shots as DA.

The 3rd gen Taurus Pt145 and I believe some other Taurus models are SA/DA.

 

[Tallball]

Para Ordanance used to make full-sized ones. I don't know if they still do.

 

[Plan2Live]

What improvement?

Shooting Single Action Pistol Cocked And Locked - 1) Grip precisely so you engage the grip safety, 2) remember to disengage the manual safety, 3) pull trigger when target is properly identified and a good sight picture is acquired.

Shooting DA/SA Hammer Fired Pistol, Round Chambered Hammer Down - 1) grip pistol more or less any way you want and can control it, 2) pull trigger when target is properly identified and a good sight picture is acquired.

Unloading a SAO Cocked and Locked - 1) remove magazine, 2) grip pistol precisely so you engage the grip safety, 3) disengage the manual safety, 4) using your preferred method and while pointing the pistol in a safe direction, slowly and carefully lower the hammer after pulling the trigger to disengage the hammer, 5) cycle the slide ejecting the live round in the chamber, 6) with the slide locked open, visually and physically inspect the firing chamber to confirm the pistol is now unloaded.

Unloading a DA/SA Hammer Fired Pistol - 1) remove the magazine, 2) cycle the slide ejecting the live round in the chamber, 3) with the slide locked open, visually and physically inspect the firing chamber to confirm the pistol is now unloaded.

Good point, what improvement?

 

[HexHead]

Except that those are double stacks.

Are you referring to the 8-round HK45c and the longer grip 10-round HK45? The ones who's mags witness holes are all in a straight line?

 

[JTQ]

Plan2Live wrote,
Unloading a SAO Cocked and Locked - 1) remove magazine, 2) grip pistol precisely so you engage the grip safety, 3) disengage the manual safety, 4) using your preferred method and while pointing the pistol in a safe direction, slowly and carefully lower the hammer after pulling the trigger to disengage the hammer, 5) cycle the slide ejecting the live round in the chamber, 6) with the slide locked open, visually and physically inspect the firing chamber to confirm the pistol is now unloaded.

That seems like an interesting technique for unloading a SAO Cocked and Locked pistol.

Why do you do step #4? I'm also not sure why you specify an action in step #2. Is there a SAO gun that requires you to engage the grip safety at that point in the unloading process?

Wouldn't the process more accurately look like this...

Unloading a SAO Cocked and Locked - 1) remove magazine, 2) disengage the manual safety, 3) cycle the slide ejecting the live round in the chamber, 4) with the slide locked open, visually and physically inspect the firing chamber to confirm the pistol is now unloaded.

 

[JTQ]

Plan2Live wrote,
Shooting Single Action Pistol Cocked And Locked - 1) Grip precisely so you engage the grip safety, 2) remember to disengage the manual safety, 3) pull trigger when target is properly identified and a good sight picture is acquired.

There are several Single Action Pistols without a grip safety.

 

[bannockburn]

Col. Plink

There were of course the Seecamp Double Action conversions for 1911s as well as Colt's problem child Double Eagle (and their new and improved version the Double Eagle II). There was also a stainless Commander size gun made by a company called ODI (I believe it was named the Viking), that was made briefly in the mid '80s. And there's the new LDA Officers Model due out sometime soon from Para Ordnance.

 

[MAKster]

For clarity, have you noticed you are the only one that keeps calling these SA/DA, while everybody else refers to the action as DA/SA? Most of these guns start out in DA with subsequent shots in SA. I can't think of any (surely there must be some) that start out as SA with subsequent shots as DA.

As has already been mention, one of the main characteristics of a 1911 is that it a single action semi-auto pistol. However, the ParaUSA LDA, as mentioned above, is close.

ParaUSA LDA http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/lda/ldaOfficer_45.php

I don't think there is any nomenclature difference between calling it SA/DA or DA/SA. But to be accurate when you load the gun and chamber a round it goes into single action first. You then have to decock it to put it in DA. All subsequent shots are then SA. So SA is the default position.

 

[ljnowell]

Aha! I knew that at some point all things converge at CZ!



My point being that I have a lovely SA/DA .45 that is roughly 1911ish in my CZ-97. It is, however, extremely large for being full-size-double-stack.



But they don't make em small! So maybe my question is whether I have to go CZ-clone to get something like a 1911 that's compact and SA/DA?

Yeah, big goes hand in hand with double stack 45s, lol. You picked a good username. Haven't seen you post before, welcome to the forum.

 

[JTQ]

I don't think there is any nomenclature difference between calling it SA/DA or DA/SA.

Because the guns in discussion in this thread (with the previous Taurus exception, and there are probably others, but I suspect were not the subject of this thread), are designed to be carried in DA mode with the first shot double action, and subsequent shots single action, hence the term DA/SA. Of course I could be wrong, the OP could be looking for a gun that is designed to be carried in SA mode and has all subsequent shots DA.

So SA is the default position.

The default carry mode for the guns that I think OP is talking about in this thread is DA. Anybody carry their Traditional Double Action (TDA) semi-autos like a Walther P-38, S&W 39/59/etc., Ruger P-Series, Beretta M9/92FS, etc, with the gun in single action mode? Probably not. Those guns are designed to be carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber in DA mode.