Any tips on using Russian ammo? (like Wolff)

[Hellbore]

First of all, my apologies if Wolff ammo isn't russian, but I was under the impression it was.

What I am wondering is what special things do I need to remember when using Russian ammo that has steel shells instead of brass?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the steel shells are coated with laquer or some kind of paint, to keep them from rusting and make them slippery enough, or something like that.

I bought a few boxes of 165 gr. .40 S&W ammo that was made in Russia and has the same kind of painted-looking shells on it as Wolff, but it's not Wolff brand. It says made in state factory or something like that.

I seem to remember reading that if you use this stuff, you need to clean your gun more often, because the paint or laquer that is on the shells will scrape off and built up inside your gun.

Do I need to use any special kind of cleaning solvent to remove this crud when it builds up in my gun?

Any advice would be appreciated. I am shooting a CZ40B and they have this ammo on sale for about $7 a box of 50, which is the lowest price I have seen around here, so if I can get away with shooting this cheap stuff, it would allow me to get out more and enjoy shooting more.

 

[cxm]

Simple Advice

Yes... advice is one word... DON"T

I don't put any steel case ammo in my guns. Quality brass case ammo is available at prices about the same as the steel stuff.

FWIW

Chuck

 

[MAUSER88]

Nothing special is needed. Just shoot and clean like normal, the laquer won't come off.

 

[Hellbore]

Quality brass case ammo is available at prices about the same as the steel stuff.

Where? Where can I find .40 S&W for around 7 bucks a box of 50? Around here it always seems to cost $11 or so a box.

 

[Ukraine Train]

New Wolf ammo is polymer coated and doesn't leave any residue liek the lacquer does from what I hear.

cxm,
why do you say not to use steel cased ammo? I don't think there's a problem with it.

 

[Hellbore]

The problems I have heard about steel-cased ammo are as follows:

If your chamber is not chrome-lined, the steel cases can make tiny scratches in the chamber (since steel is quite a bit harder than brass).

Those scratches then fill up with laquer or other debris, causing further buildup and rougher operation.

Eventually you start getting FTE's. Even when you go back to brass cases, the scratches are still there, and now even brass cases don't run as smoothly through your gun. In fact the scraches cause your breech to mark up the brass casings.

This is just what i have read from reliable sources. I haven't experienced it personally. I don't even know if the chamber of my gun is chrome-lined or not. It's a CZ40B. It's a Czech-made gun so maybe it is made to handle this communist bloc ammo. However, it was made for Colt, it was supposed to be the Colt Z40 until Colt backed out of the deal, so who knows if it is built for Russian ammo or not...

 

[petrel800]

The barrel in a CZ-40B should be stainless steel.

Shoot away with the steel ammo. I've never had one problem with it to this point. I've shot wolf in .45, 9mmM, .223, 7.62X39, and .308 and have yet to have a problem. Its not the most accurate stuff or the hottest, but it shoots and it allows us little guys to shoot more which is a help to every gun owner.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I've shot a lot of Wolf, Silver Bear, etc. out of my SKS's. Of course, I think they were born to shoot that kind of ammo. Personally, I wouldn't put Wolf or the like through a nice US made gun, especially if it's in a US caliber like .40 S&W. I've heard the steel cases can be rough on extractors, on the chamber, the lacquer can build up. Probably nothing would happen, but again, if I had a higher dollar gun that I didn't want to hurt I would definitely not do it. I won't shoot it out of my SA Champion.

Many folks have no problems with it and shoot it all the time. You know what they say about opinions. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Third_Rail]

The mild steel used in the cases by Wolf is actually softer than brass. No scratches will be made unless by foreign material like sand.

 

[S Roper]

I shoot Barnaul HP in 9X18 for my Makarov. I'm not sure anything special needs to be done for steel casings.

 

[TallPine]

"Wolf" ammo is definitely Russian

"Wolff" springs I believe are a different company

 

[Pulsar]

hey guys

is there something special that you use to clean the laquer
off the chamber
or will just some bore cleaner work

thanks

bruce

 

[jefnvk]

No worries. I shoot it through my Springfield .45 and my SKS. Never had a problem.

 

[trickyasafox]

im not afraid to shoot wolf in any of my guns and i think it works fine. im even gonna try reloading it once i get my press set up... . .anyone here reload steel cartridges

 

[444]

I was out at the range today shooting my M4 clone that is equipped with a TA31 ACOG. At our range, we have a steel plate that is at something like 380 yards. The plate is smaller than a human's chest, I don't know maybe two feet long and a foot wide. After shooting a number of groups on paper at 200 yards, I fired 10 rounds at the plate using 55 grain Wolf. 10 easy hits, COM. Funny, I didn't have any problem with it functioning either; just like the previous 13, 1000 round cases of it I have fired out of my AR15s over the last three years. I haven't even tried the "new stuff" yet.

 

[Edmond]

I've shot .45 and 9mm Wolf with no problems. Yes, it is dirty and it smells pretty bad. But you clean it and don't inhale it.

Just regular cleaner will do. Might have to make a few more passes with the brush, though. That's about it.

It is a very cheap ammo price wise but you can save if you buy enough of it due to shipping costs. But if you really shoot that much, think about reloading.

 

[444]

Actually, with Wolf available, it isn't worth reloading anything but serious match ammo. If you are plinking, doing defensive type shooting, or busting varmints, Wolf make handloading a waste of time. At the gunshows you can buy a 1000 round case of Wolf for just under $100. Even if I could handload 1000 rounds of .223 for $100, I am not going to waste the time.
There for awhile, I was buying a case a month.

Last summer I even started buying 9mm and .45 ACP Wolf by the case. Again, it costs about the same as handloading only it doesn't take any time: and the best part is that you don't have to pick up your brass. I am using the 9mm stuff in my submachine gun. Runs like a top. I used the .45 ACP in a weekly steel plate match. Functioned perfectly and accuracy was more than good enough to hit a steel plate at 10 yards.

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

there are many posts on the internet amongst Class III shooters to stay away from Wolf unless you are firing an open bolt SMG or using something with very loose tolerances like an AK-47.

in full auto in a closed bolt, the temperature quickly heats up and causes the lacquer to melt off the casing. it coats the interior of your chamber and later it cools down and solidifies inside your gun. with guns having tight tolerances, like an M16, you can ruin it. it's happened to quite a few people.

on AK-47's it seems to have no effect since the weapon has quite loose tolerances and a bit of lacquer won't hurt that gun.

in an open bolt SMG the bolt stays open so the round does not spend alot of time in the closed bolt and chamber before it is fired and ejected so it does not tend to be a problem in UZI's, MAC's, etc.

the new Wolf is polymer coated instead of lacquered and is supposed to be better. you can tell if its polymer since there is a big "P" stamped on each case of ammo.

 

[TallPine]

im even gonna try reloading it once i get my press set up... . .anyone here reload steel cartridges

If I'm not mistaken, you can't de-prime Wolf ammo with a normal die because it uses the 2-hole "European" (Berdan?) type primers. You will break your primer punch on the first round.

I don't think the steel would resize like brass ... Might stick in the die, for all I know.

I'm not sure you can even buy bullets, powder, and primers for the price of complete Wolf ammo.

 

[fastbolt]

After having talked to different manufacturer's reps, armorer instructors and other L/E armorers, I've developed a simple rule for the use of Russian-made Wolf ammunition ... I would only use it in Russian-made firearms, or licensed copies of Russian firearms. I've heard that it's generally considered appropriate in those circumstances, and those firearms deserve it ...

Since I don't own or use any firearms that fit that description, I've no use or need for the ammunition.

Other folk's experiences and levels of satisfaction seem to run from one end of the spectrum to the other.

I've heard of some L/E agency use of it as 'inexpensive training ammunition', primarily in AR-15/M16/M4-type rifles, and it's never seemed to be considered as satisfactory as they might wish, over the long run ...

Buyer beware, as usual, and your mileage may vary ...

 

[Feanaro]

With the exception of one box of UMC, the only ammo I have ever put through my SKS was Wolf. My brother uses Wolf in his Mosin sometimes, it's always fairly accurate and very reliable. I've thought about buying a case of Wolf .308 and putting it through my CETME. But I lack the funds... any of you gentlemen care to donate a little cash for science?

in full auto in a closed bolt, the temperature quickly heats up and causes the lacquer to melt off the casing.

I've never seen it proved to my satisfaction that the laquer could come off at any reasonable temperature. But, as you pointed out, it's polymer now.

you can tell if its polymer since there is a big "P" stamped on each case of ammo.

It's also a light grey instead of puke green.

 

[White Horseradish]

If you do a search, somewhere there is a report with pictures of a test of some Wolf cases. Neither the lacquer nor the polymer coating will melt at any temperature a semiauto firearm is likely to reach. The problems with the early Wolf ammo lots were from too much sealant - that's the red stuff around the primer and bullet. They use less sealant now and it does not drip into your action, so there really isn't anything to worry about.

Wolf, Bear, and Barnaul are all Russian-made, but in different factories. Wolf is not match-grade ammo and should not be expected to perform as such. Bear (Silver Bear in particular) is much more consistent.

I use Wolf 7.62x54R as my plinking ammo. It is essentially the same as WWII issue ammo, it's probably made on the same equipment. Again, it is not match-grade and will not let you get the most accuracy your rifle is capable of.

I also use Wolf 7.62x39 in my SKS. Same thing, it's cheap and about as accurate as Yugo surplus.

I haven't tried any American calibers from Wolf, but that's because I only have one rifle in a non-comblock caliber and I've only had it for a short time. I don't think there will be a problem so long as you know what to expect.

 

[John Ross]

I have shot over 100,000 rounds of Wolf 9mm, 9x18, .45, and .223. I have broken two extractors; one on a Colt Government Model and one on an H&K MP5. This is well worth the savings IMO.

JR

 

[280PLUS]

Pointy end goes toward the target...



Ive shot a few hundred rounds of Wolf 7.62x39 through my CZ527 with no problems or ill effects. Always seems to go bang. Clean up has not been a problem either. Fairly accurate for the price - IMHO

 

[Brad Johnson]

Several thousand rounds of it a year goes through my XD-9 and Springfield Loaded Longslide (1911). No problems other than the unique smell.

It's amazing how many times people will come up to me at the range an announce in terse jackass-ese that "That russkie ammo is gonna ruin your gun after a couple hundred rounds!" When I tell them I have more than 10,000 rounds of Wolf through each gun with no problems they usually say something condescending and then go bother someone else.

Brad