Anybody get suspicious at an estate auction with... incongrueous... cheapies?

[the naked prophet]

So I'm thinking about going to a gun auction. And I've been to others in the past. Each one was the auction of a single guy who passed away, so it's a single collection that's being parted out for bids.

The guy has a large collection, nice shotguns, some engraved. Nice rifles, some engraved, some antique, many collectible. Nice revolvers such as pre-29 S&W .44 mags, high quality semiauto pistols, etc.

And then, there's about half a dozen Hi-Points, RG pot metal revolvers, and Jennings .22 pistols. And there's not really anything in-between, quality-wise.

Does anybody else think that maybe some dishonest yet gun-savvy relative or someone close has decided to replace some nice, expensive, collectible pieces with junky changelings, knowing the non-gunny family won't notice the difference? It makes sense if there's a list of "## revolvers, ## semiautomatic pistols, ## rifles" with no more details as to the make or value. The rest of the family wouldn't know the difference.

Or have I been reading too much H. Beam Piper ("Murder in the Gun Room" http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/17866)?

 

[Jim Watson]

I know of one such case. A guy with a substantial accumulation died and it took a while to get his estate probated. By the time his widow went to sell off his guns, she found that their no good son had replaced most in the cases with BB guns and sold the firearms to support his drug habit. She did not know enough to spot the substitutions until the consignment dealer pointed it out to her.

 

[AndyC]

Why even worry about it? Get all the good stuff for the lowest price you can - the other stuff is irrelevant

 

[tank mechanic]

How do you find out about gun auctions? I would love to go to one.

 

[Trebor]

Are you *sure* they didn't combine lots? Even if it's advertised as a single collection, they may have decide to add another small lot of guns so they would only have to run one auction. The second lot was probably too small to warrant an auction by itself.

 

[Clipper]

?

What business is it of yours anyway?

 

[the naked prophet]

The auctions I go to list the name and address of the deceased, I suppose so you can bid higher for your poor departed friend.

As to whose business it is, I suppose it isn't mine. I just can't think of any other reason for a high-quality collector and shooter who fancies S&W pre-29 .44 mags, gold-engraved trap double shotguns, and super-fancy-grade hand-carved hand-checkered walnut-stocked hand-bedded rifles, to have half a dozen pot metal RG and Clerke revolvers and a handful of Hi-Point 9mm and Jennings .22 pistols.

 

[musher]

Well now, who in their right mind would use a pre 29 44 as a throwdown gun?

 

[vynx]

Only a half dozens cheapies? Those might just be the first ones he got.

I have around a half dozen cheapies, not worth enough to sell - I bought them when I first started collecting, back when I thought I only wanted one for that one in a million chance that I might need it.

Now of course I know better but I still have those old cheapies...some are actually quite functional. Remember Davis .380's?

 

[Clipper]

once upon a time I started collecting automatic knives, and though I had Bokers, Benchmades and other high-end pieces, I had some representative pieces that I suspect were made out of hacksaw blades with a hand file in someone's garage in Russia... Heck, I had one (purchased new) that wouldn't even stay closed, and I kept it opened in a sheath! Cheap knives were still knives, ya know?

 

[browningguy]

What business is it of yours anyway?

Why say anything if you have nothing to contribute.

Anyway, I do find it strange at times, don't go to many gun auction but I also collect other things. Several times I've been to a good estate collection sale, and found all sorts of junk thrown in. Either someone got their before the auctioneers, or the auctioneers are trying to get rid of some crap.

 

[Wes Janson]

Well now, who in their right mind would use a pre 29 44 as a throwdown gun?

I can answer that...Bill Gates

 

[El Tejon]

The several auctions I have been too have been prone to a strange disease called "Auction Fever" in which buyers forget all about the actual value of a gun and just want to "win" the auction.

Last February I went to a big estate sale, well over 350 guns. I only walked away with two (Smith .22 revolvers) as Auction Fever was in full cry.

 

[lee n. field]

The several auctions I have been too have been prone to a strange disease called "Auction Fever" in which buyers forget all about the actual value of a gun and just want to "win" the auction.

PA-63, went for three and a quarter (back in the day when Shotgun News price was just shy of $100). I let it go when bidding went over $80.

 

[Pork Fat]

Auction Fever

I think gun auctions are more prone to it. If an auction has a lot of nice pieces and a lot of moneyed bidders, the action can go sky high very quickly.
Guys that go to the auction with a couple hundred bucks are left in the dust. I am often left in the dust. Almost always, actually. Then the dingy garden shed .22 single shot Sears with no finish is held up. One of my fellow bottom feeders is all grins as he wins the bidding at $120 before buyer's premium and tax.
Wiser heads slowly shake in disbelief. Next, a run of the mill .30-30 goes for more than a brand new one at Wal-Mart. Tsk'ing is heard. In turn, poorly Bubba'd milsurps, airguns, and Pakistani knives get their moment of stardom.
A man that goes to a gun auction with a little cash and some auction fever can find himself with some strange company on that ride home after "closing time". Seen it, done it.

 

[gezzer]

Auctions are a large source of guns for my shop. One must know what they are doing, anyone with "Auction fever" should stay home under the porch as they cannot play with the big dogs.

Seriously any collection in an estate will have JUNK along with the good stuff. Know what you are bidding on and remember the bidder premium do your preview and research. Write down your top bid before the auction starts. The top bid must reflect the added buyer premium. I get many guns brought into my shop within 2 weeks of some auctions I buy them for less than 1/2 of what they paid for them. It is a hard lesson.

Estate auctions give me a larger return on my money versus the actual Gun Auction houses. They just cannot supply the volume needed.

After 20 some odd years I have also been burned on pieces, it is the nature of the trade.

 

[CU74]

Seen it. Done it.

Pork Fat and I must have been too some of the same auctions. Sky high doesn't begn to describe some of the prices I have seen around a gun table.

I once paid more for a 30-30 than a new one goes for at Wall Mart - but the new WM 30-30 is NOT the discontinued model 30-30 at the auction, plus the WM 30-30 has the lawer-induced safety that the auction 30-30 doesn't have.

Follow Gezzer's advice. Do some research so you know what you are bidding on. WRITE DOWN your maximum bid and don't go over it. The testerone level around an auction table full of guns is higher than the national debt - don't get caught up in a "manhood" contest. If "your" gun reaches your maximum bid and someone wants to keep bidding, don't question your maximum bid, walk away. Let him show up in Gezzer's shop with a gun to sell, not you.

My max bid is often blown through in the opening bidding. It is a rare surprise when I have a winning bid. I have been happy with all three of them.

 

[Vaarok]

The part that scares me is when the truly desireable stuff doesn't sell.

This October I went to a gunshop liquidation north of Syracuse, and watched in horror as some okayish Ithaca 37 shotguns and common leverguns all fetched a better markup than the storefront pricetags had asked. Then a Russian SKS, a Tula admittedly, went for eight hundred dollars, and a boring and worn Underwood M-1 carbine topped eleven. A Stevens 311 brought $550, even.

Meanwhile, I got a mint Nazi G-24(t) with matching numbers and a nazi-marked bayonet and frog for $330 after fees, and two new-in-the-grease Polish M-44s for $150 a pop.

 

[ARGarrison]

I was at an auction last September. It was an estate sale, but only firearms and firearm stuff. IIRC over 150 firearms some high end top of the line down to cheap handguns. Didn't see any deals and when it got down to the stuff it was down between two guys that was buying most everything up.

In October went to another auction, this one was half firearms half coin and colletables. It had to be three different firearm colletions put together. You could walk the table and tell the differance, one was a WWII firearm colletion, one was haevy Winchester most NIB and the last was well used hunting firearms. If it wasn't Winchester, there were good deals at that one, but every other lot was coins.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I actually work auctions (part-time on the weekend) and this is what I have seen, to the 'T', in one degree or the other.

1. Person passes away
2. We are contacted by the family
3. We go and appraise the collection/determine if we have a deal with the next of kin
4. The next week, we prepare the house/items for the sale. Magically, things like gold jewelry, firearms, and fine furniture disappear between the time the deal was made and the time we get there to prepare for the sale. When we ask where the stuff went: It's always 'Aunt Sally promised Cousin Joe that he could have such and such.' In place of the missing items is (variably) stuff that you would see at a bad garage sale - Indonesian furniture (from the survivors, wanting to make a quick buck selling their own crap) in place of good Victorian stuff, etc.

This is normal for estate sales, IMO. The cheap guns might be hot, so I would be cautious about buying them.

JE223