Anybody shooting 9x23Win?

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Howland937

Howland937

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I've seen a few mentions in various threads about the 9x23 Winchester round. I have a 5" 9x19 barrel that I'm not using for anything and have no intention of putting back in the Kimber I switched over to .38 Super. I might be compelled to ream it for 9x23 since it's factory fitted to my gun. I do like the idea of a different cartridge, but my question is: How much different is it really? Those of you that own/shoot/load it, is there a substantial advantage over .38 Super? A rabbit hole better left alone? I don't shoot competition or anything...just like the idea of getting near .357 mag performance in a (cheap) 1911.
 
If you handload, the 38 Super can achieve the same performance at normal 38 Super pressures.

If you don't handload, the 9X23 has the advantage by about 100 fps over the fastest 38 Super.
 
Isn't an advantage of the 9x23 Win that you can safely get to those high end speeds in a 1911 without having to have a ramped barrel? The 9x23 Win case is stronger than the .38 Super.
 
JTQ said:
Isn't an advantage of the 9x23 Win that you can safely get to those high end speeds in a 1911 without having to have a ramped barrel? The 9x23 Win case is stronger than the .38 Super.
Click to expand...

Yes. But that needs clarification. 38 Super is fine in a non-ramped barrel if you stay within 38 Super pressures. If you exceed 38 Super pressures, a ramped barrel is required.

The article posted above shows that selecting the right brass (Starline +P or Super Comp) will help to keep you safe in a non-ramped barrel when pushing the 38 Super to it's pressure limit. Remington and Winchester brass is a little thin and can show high pressure signs and minor bulging in the unsupported region.

Winchester's 9X23 brass is super-strong. It will handle its very high pressure in an unramped barrel with no problem. Starline's version, 9X23 Comp, is not as strong as the Winchester brass, and can show excessive bulging in a non-ramped barrel. That is shown in the article below.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/cartridge-review-9x23-winchester/99601
 
Yeah, I'd been wanting to try the N105 and AA7 powder. I've also got some data on Herco that gets it up there pretty good too. I've been shooting the 124 MG HP and 124 Speer TMJ... 8.3gr of HS6 is getting me right around 1350 and is my most accurate load. 8.0gr. of WSF moves it pretty good but not as accurate. Lil Gun makes a nice boom but was all over the place in accuracy and velocity. It's a fully supported/ ramped barrel but I've resisted the urge to go any higher with those powders. Don't have any interest in shooting the 9x19, but thought if the barrel was useful for a different caliber it would be almost like getting another gun.
 
I thought the major difference between the two is that .38 Super is Semi-Rim while 9x23 Winchester is Rimless.
 
whm1974 said:
I thought the major difference between the two is that .38 Super is Semi-Rim while 9x23 Winchester is Rimless.
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You're correct.
That is the mechanical difference (for lack of a better term). I was mostly trying to see if there was enough difference in performance to justify buying a $100 reamer or paying to have my barrel done.
 
Howland937 said:
Yeah, I'd been wanting to try the N105 and AA7 powder. I've also got some data on Herco that gets it up there pretty good too. I've been shooting the 124 MG HP and 124 Speer TMJ... 8.3gr of HS6 is getting me right around 1350 and is my most accurate load. 8.0gr. of WSF moves it pretty good but not as accurate. Lil Gun makes a nice boom but was all over the place in accuracy and velocity. It's a fully supported/ ramped barrel but I've resisted the urge to go any higher with those powders. Don't have any interest in shooting the 9x19, but thought if the barrel was useful for a different caliber it would be almost like getting another gun.
Click to expand...
I had excellent results with N105 last year. I was getting up over 1400 fps using 124 gr RMR TC Match Winners, Starline Supercomp brass, and N105. I backed down a little after proving to myself it could be done. fxvr5 was a big help with that process. It will be compressed loads, and aggressive seating is needed to get the bullet in there.

I still have 2.5 pounds of N105. I plan to save a pound or so and cook up some self defense loads. I really like Accurate powders, and plan to try AA#7 next. I load it in my 9mm ammo and it meters wonderfully consistent from my Dillon powder throw.
 
fxvr5 said:
Not completely.

The 38 Super is straight-walled and semi-rimmed. The rimless version of the 38 Super is the 38 Super Comp.

The 9X23 is tapered and rimless.
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe they are both tapered, which would be a good thing. Considering the length of the cartridge a taper aids in feeding.

I like the 9X23 for all of the reasons stated. As a practical matter though, with the right barrel, there is little difference in performance. I do prefer the rimless brass though. I never did like the way .38 super stacks in a magazine.
 
TonyAngel said:
Actually, I believe they are both tapered, which would be a good thing. Considering the length of the cartridge a taper aids in feeding.

I like the 9X23 for all of the reasons stated. As a practical matter though, with the right barrel, there is little difference in performance. I do prefer the rimless brass though. I never did like the way .38 super stacks in a magazine.
Click to expand...

The 38 Super is not tapered. It is straight-walled - .384" cylindrical. See page 49 of the SAAMI specs at the link below. Always has been since it's origin in 1900 as the 38 Auto. It has worked fine for the last 120 years.

https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
 
The rimless design doesn't really solve any problems in a single stack mag though, does it? Or rather, the 38 super comp was designed for better function in double stack?
460Shooter said:
I had excellent results with N105 last year. I was getting up over 1400 fps using 124 gr RMR TC Match Winners, Starline Supercomp brass, and N105. I backed down a little after proving to myself it could be done. fxvr5 was a big help with that process. It will be compressed loads, and aggressive seating is needed to get the bullet in there.

I still have 2.5 pounds of N105. I plan to save a pound or so and cook up some self defense loads. I really like Accurate powders, and plan to try AA#7 next. I load it in my 9mm ammo and it meters wonderfully consistent from my Dillon powder throw.
Click to expand...
I do appreciate the info. I did follow your adventures in working up that load. And extractor problems. I was using mixed brass at first, then got a good deal on about 400 Sig factory rounds. Not sure who makes it, but it's done well since I started using it exclusively. I've been on the fence about whether to spend the $70 for a lb of powder by the time I pay shipping and hazmat. Local place ordered some AA7 for me a couple months ago when he put in his powder order. Says they're still out of stock.
ETA. Using Sig brass after I burnt up all the Sig factory ammo...
 
fxvr5 said:
The 38 Super is not tapered. It is straight-walled - .384" cylindrical. See page 49 of the SAAMI specs at the link below. Always has been since it's origin in 1900 as the 38 Auto. It has worked fine for the last 120 years.

https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
Click to expand...

Wow, did I call you a dirty name? I don't think I questioned whether it worked or not. I've loaded thousands of rounds of super and they sure looked slightly tapered to me. Geez.
 
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TonyAngel said:
Wow, did I call you a dirty name? I don't think I questioned whether it worked or not. I've loaded thousands of rounds of super and they sure looked slightly tapered to me. Geez.
Click to expand...

You made a statement of 'fact', when you said "I believe they are both tapered".

I pointed out that the 38 Super is straight-walled. A tapered case is not necessary for 'good feeding', and the 38 Super is evidence of that.
 
fxvr5 said:
You made a statement of 'fact', when you said "I believe they are both tapered".

I pointed out that the 38 Super is straight-walled. A tapered case is not necessary for 'good feeding', and the 38 Super is evidence of that.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.
 
At one time the drive to a 38/9mm gun to shoot high velocities was meant to quality as major or something similar for certain types of gun gaming. For such it obviously makes good sense. Regardless whether it was .38 super or 9x23, if I was really loading hot I would want want a ramped barrel. I just would not count on brass taking the place of steel for support. For higher velocity, this is america and anyone should have what ever they can afford to have including an extra 100 fps.
I used to carry a .357 sig, but now a G19 with +P+ is the easy button.
 
Kinda new to 38 Super myself and I find it more than adequate.
Started out using Titegroup and AA# 7 but based on 460Shooters recommendations I bit the bullet and ordered some N105 online and ate the Hazmat fee, needed some primers anyway, I really like N105 and here's my results using .125gr Hap bullet and 10.0 gr of N105:
Stats - Average 1375.52 fps
Stats - Highest 1417.21 fps
Stats - Lowest 1311.86 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 105.36 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 28.4 fps

This was for a 35 shot string, 15 from a P-38 with a 5" barrel and the rest from a 4-1/4 barrel Guardian.
Top velocity for the 4-1/4 barrel was 1390.
Conversely my results with the same bullet an 9.8 gr of AA#7 yielded:
Stats - Average 1309.99 fps
Stats - Highest 1375.11 fps
Stats - Lowest 1219.98 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 155.13 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 47.36 fps
Top velocity for the 4-1/4 barrel was 1335.

Next weekend I'm going for a load with my favorite 10mm powder AA#9 let you no how it goes.
By the way a target load of a 115gr. Hap bullet with 5.2gr, of Titegroup yielded:
Stats - Average 1309.99 fps
Stats - Highest 1375.11 fps
Stats - Lowest 1219.98 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 155.13 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 47.36 fps

Titegroup target loads gave good Accuracy but burns really hot unlike the slower burning powders.
 
Brutus, By all accounts N-105 is excellent for top velocities in the Super. I've not found any N-105 locally, and have not made the effort to order some. I have used a bunch of AA-7, which is similar in burning rate to N-105. The AA-7 is excellent for the more energetic loads in the Super and 10MM. But for the top loads in the 10, and Super, AA-9 is my favorite too. Been loading more 38 Super lately using AA-9 with 147 and 124/125 grain bullets. I'm currently using Supers with ramped barrels, and 147 @ 1250+ FPS and 124/125 @ 1450+ fps have been easily achieved without any issues.

I've also loaded 9X23 Winchester, and consider it a fine cartridge. But since similar ballistics are easily achievable using ramped barrels and 38S, 38SC and .38TJ brass, I've kind of lost interest in loading 9X23.
 
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