Anybody use/keep less lethal ammo?
- Thread starter DustyGmt
- Start date
.308 Norma
Member
That'll work. I've seen Hopalong do that many times. Furthermore, the bullets that Hopalong shoots never ricochet off the thug's gun and hit any innocent bystanders.
Jim Watson
Member
Reminds me of a (fictional) hard nosed agency that recognized only "guilty bystanders." They were as bad as the Mob about not leaving witnesses.
Wait a minute... are you using snakes as less lethal options? I imagine a copperhead launcher would deter any rational human.
You might be onto something there. I've seen people fight through pepper spray, but I've never seen someone who didn't run away from a snake thrown at them.
citizenconn
Member
My disabled wife does because both of the pistols she is able to rack and shoot are chambered in .380. It beats begging the savages here in Houston for mercy they won't give an elderly, mostly wheelchair bound woman.I hear lots of people carry a .380...
It also gives her the confidence to be able to go out into the world (if you can call Houston the world) without the fear of being the victim of violence with no chance of defending herself.
theotherwaldo
Member
The last time that I saw someone shoot a gun out of a perp's hand, I also got to see how to use a tourniquet... .
.455_Hunter
Member
To the OP's question, the answer is absolutely!
We keep a H&R 12 ga single-shot for ready use with rubber baton and rubber buck. Plenty of four-critters around who may need hazing, especially the bears.
We keep a H&R 12 ga single-shot for ready use with rubber baton and rubber buck. Plenty of four-critters around who may need hazing, especially the bears.
OP
OP
DustyGmt
Member
That was my initial reason for buying it, had some pretty ballsy black bears coming around during the day and night. It litterally got to the point where if I walked out to the car or something at night, I could smell them and tell if they were close and they were for a while. I didn't want to kill a bear but it's a good thing they decided not to come back because I had that rubber slug for another encounter with an aggressive acting bear. (Tried to shoo him away from my porch and trash cans and make noise to scare him away and he was not listening so I put a few in the dirt near him and he got the message, but kept returning)
But I definitely get why people advise against using it for defense against humans. There is no way to know if rubber slug or balls will reliably stop a threat.... good input from everyone. I don't know if it was clear that I didn't think it was really a good choice for defense, but was just generally curious if other people did because I've seen alot of it sold in the civilian market
armoredman
Member
I have some direct knowledge of less than lethal munitions. We JUST switched to 40mm after 20 years with the 37mm, so i trained with the 37mm Multi Munitions launcher for 20 years, very simple, easy to use single shot. The older revolver styler were driven by a rubber band that broke, so we ditched them.
LTL is called that because it still CAN be lethal, never ever call them NON lethal. A 37mm baton round to the brain housing group can cause a lethal injury, for instance, which is why we fire into the ground directly in front of the target to skip them UP into the knees, hence the affectionate nickname, "knee knockers."
Shotgun LTL is suspect AT BEST. Beanbags can work, (know of one that worked from a tower quite well), but inaccurate at any real range. We discovered that the 60 caliber "stingballs" are worthless, shaped like little rocket ships, and fly like Flash Gordon is driving. The ONLY thing we use in a 12 gauge that is LTL is Number 7 steel, (so it shows up on X-Ray), fired at the lower extremities between specified distances but never closer than 20 yards. If being closed on, the rounds CAN be fired center mass, and are then considered lethal force.
I gun shop I worked at MANY years ago sold rubber buckshot once, until I convinced them to pull it as a bad idea. People are stupid and will try this stuff out on each other in drunken parties, "Dude, it's RUBBER, it's safe, lemme shoot you!"
Want to do LTL? Use good pepper spray. I highly recommend Phantom - it's like the Devil's own farts.
Do NOT use pepper ball launchers - in the several times I have seen those deployed, the only people they irritated was us walking through the crime scene later and stirring up that synthetic "OC" into our eyes while doing reports.
LTL is called that because it still CAN be lethal, never ever call them NON lethal. A 37mm baton round to the brain housing group can cause a lethal injury, for instance, which is why we fire into the ground directly in front of the target to skip them UP into the knees, hence the affectionate nickname, "knee knockers."
Shotgun LTL is suspect AT BEST. Beanbags can work, (know of one that worked from a tower quite well), but inaccurate at any real range. We discovered that the 60 caliber "stingballs" are worthless, shaped like little rocket ships, and fly like Flash Gordon is driving. The ONLY thing we use in a 12 gauge that is LTL is Number 7 steel, (so it shows up on X-Ray), fired at the lower extremities between specified distances but never closer than 20 yards. If being closed on, the rounds CAN be fired center mass, and are then considered lethal force.
I gun shop I worked at MANY years ago sold rubber buckshot once, until I convinced them to pull it as a bad idea. People are stupid and will try this stuff out on each other in drunken parties, "Dude, it's RUBBER, it's safe, lemme shoot you!"
Want to do LTL? Use good pepper spray. I highly recommend Phantom - it's like the Devil's own farts.
Do NOT use pepper ball launchers - in the several times I have seen those deployed, the only people they irritated was us walking through the crime scene later and stirring up that synthetic "OC" into our eyes while doing reports.
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OP
OP
DustyGmt
Member
Yep, I can definitely see that, there's no shortage of jack holes in this country who think it'd be funny to tag a friend with a rubber slug, push em off a bridge, drive and speed at excessive and dangerous speed, etc....
I'm reminded of the time that some select members of the crew from the "Jackass" movies went to ALS Tech. and Johnny got pelted with a 12ga bean bag right in his bread basket, he wasn't laughing. The idiots also stood about 10 paces from one of those claymore type setups (directional mine) filled with rubber stingers, the ones that they put around embassies to deter especially committed protestors. That didn't look like a good time either.
lysanderxiii
Member
The problem with "less lethal" ammunition is that it is still considered "lethal". So, if you pull a gun loaded with "less lethal" ammunition, you are still presenting "lethal force".
So, if the situation demands "lethal force", why would you ham-string yourself with less effectiveness?
So, if the situation demands "lethal force", why would you ham-string yourself with less effectiveness?
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I may choose to load a shotgun with bird shot, but not because it is less lethal.
FL-NC
Member
No.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
I think the only thing is have that counts would be my box of a few hundred Speer plastic bullets and cases in .38 and .44 cal. I can’t imagine them being lethal outside of a contact shot to the temple (unlikely even in that instance, but possible).
For those who haven’t seen them, it’s a plastic casing that accepts either small pistol primers in .38 cal, or large pistol primers in .44 cal. There’s no gunpowder and you just push the hard plastic cylindrical plastic bullet into the top of the case. These shoot low and usually left or right of POA of iron sights in my experience. They are also a waste of good primers which is why mine sit unused in a box.
I do suspect they would hurt quite a bit, but would probably rate below what I would call an effective deterrent as a ranged but less lethal impact weapon.
For those who haven’t seen them, it’s a plastic casing that accepts either small pistol primers in .38 cal, or large pistol primers in .44 cal. There’s no gunpowder and you just push the hard plastic cylindrical plastic bullet into the top of the case. These shoot low and usually left or right of POA of iron sights in my experience. They are also a waste of good primers which is why mine sit unused in a box.
I do suspect they would hurt quite a bit, but would probably rate below what I would call an effective deterrent as a ranged but less lethal impact weapon.
.308 Norma
Member
In my experience, the primers "back out" - which ties the revolver up.
I read or heard somewhere that you can drill the flash holes out a bit and that will stop the primers from backing out. I never figured it was worth the effort though, so like yours, most of my Speer plastic handgun cartridges are still in the box they came in.
theotherwaldo
Member
I wind up with some LTL rounds because I pick up the ones that are dropped by the LE and Border Patrol at the local range.
Purely for display, of course.
Purely for display, of course.
