Anybody used R&D conversion cylinders?

[TCoops]

I own a Uberti 3rd model Dragoon and have been shooting it for 4 months straight. I love it. I've collected 5 cylinders, put those flash brass nipples on them, make my own lube pills in the kitchen, and shoot it every week. Its been a smooth running straight shooting revolver. I've nearly got it 95% reliable too.

However, I want to take my beloved Dragoon more places. Ie- in indoor ranges where they prohibit black powder. Also, we have a black powder shortage down here in South Australia. I thought about buying a single action 45 LC revolver to solve those problems. But the thought of locking away my Dragoon makes me sad.

I want an R&D conversion cylinder. I have a few questions for anybody who's used them:

*How exactly do you pull the backplate off the cylinder? What mechanism is holding it all together? Plastic snap on?
*Does the R&D cylinder accept any generic 45LC cartridge, or only the special conversion cylinder cartridge that R&D sells?
*What sort of lead projectile do i need to load in the cartridge? Will shooting 45LC unduly damage my barrel?
*What is the maximum safe powder load? What can you recommend?

Any more advice you can think of, I'd be grateful. I know this is blackpowder forum and smokeless is somewhat sacrilegious. But I'm just trying to get even MORE use out of my graceful old girl

Thanks in advance

 

[Sistema1927]

I have an R&D cylinder, but for the opposite end of the spectrum. Mine is for an 1849, in .32 S&W.

The quality if superb. There are steel pins that line the back plate with the front of the cylinder. You will want to stick to light "cowboy" loads, and lead bullets only.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The cylinder back is held in place by the barrel as the cap-n-ball cylinder was held in place. The plate is aligned with two, small, internal pins, but when it's removed the plate falls into your hand.

Any .45 LC cartridge will fit, BUT the cylinder is made to accept the pressure of a BP/Pyrodex cartridge or Black Hills cowboy ammunition. They have no way of controlling what you put into the cylinder, or how you reload, so they tell you to use either BP or the Black Hills ammo. (At least that's what they had in my instructions, but they may have changed them by now.)

Any lead projectile suitable for the .45 LC will shoot fine in your revolver.

35 grains of Pyrodex pushing a 200 grain LRNFP gives you 8,500 CUP (IIRC), and pushing a 250 grain LRNFP gives 9,500 CUP, so a smokeless load under 8,700 CUP should be fine. Hodgdon lists a 200 grain LRNFP being launched by 5.7 grains of Universal at 5,700 cup, so that's what I used.

The cylinder isn't made so you can launch defense loads, it's made to shoot cowboy action target loads, so stay away from "maximum" loads, eh?

LD

 

[DMZ]

I have one for my Ruger Old Army that works very well.

The only load I have fired in it is 5.5 grains of TrailBoss under a 255 gr LFN. This is a very accurate load in the ROA.

I too have an old Uberti 3rd Model Dragoon and I was pondering a coversion cylinder for it, so if you get one give us a review on it. I am especially interested to see if you have do do any filing of the frame or forcing cone to get it to fit.

 

[Cincinnati Slim]

R&D cylinder

Howdy,

The R&D cylinder is a great deal. It's really an update of a English patent (Adams/Deane/Tranter) two piece conversion cylinder which was used in Remington and other brand revolvers back in the 19th century. Works fine except for use in Colt system sixguns you have to knock out the wedge and pull the barrel off the arbor to reload. My pet black powder sub load for .45 Colt is 28Gr. (by volume) Triple-Seven ff, 0.060 inch card wad, 250 Gr. RNFP .452 generic soft lead slug. Lots of smoke, good accuracy fairly strong recoil, good accuracy and pretty clean shooting. I can get off a full 50 shot cartridge box without any real loss of accuracy and no bore swabbing. Clean-up is real easy compaired to true black powder loads.

Only warning about the R&D cylinder; DO NOT DRY FIRE ! Get a set of "snap-caps" or similar dry fire dummy rounds and keep 'em in the cylinder when it's not loaded with live ammo. The little R&D firing pins are not spring loaded. Dry firing can mess 'em up real quick. If one gets stuck in the "out" position is possible (not likely but possible) it could set off a round when the cylinder is loaded into the revolver. The other thing is the tight dimentions of the R&D cylinder's chambers. You'll need to full length resize so loaded rounds drop in alll the way easily. Just make sure the cases are snug and fully into the chambers, check for high primers and make sure all the firing pins are flush before loading the assembled cylinder into the gun. I just quickly run my finger around the back of the cylinder and around the face of the backplate to make sure all is well. If the loaded cylinder seems too long or you can see a gap between the cylinder and the back plate, STOP and see what's wrong.

I made an "ejector block", a piece of wood with a set of dowel roods in a circle to match the chamber bores. After shooting a cylinder, I pull my Colt apart, take the cylinder and push it down smartly on my '"ejector block". That pushes off the back plate and knocks out all the shell casings in one quick motion. Using that and a small soft-face hammer to knock the wedge in and out I can reload my R&D cylinder Colts in about 20 seconds ! Just don't drop the wedge....

Happy Trails,

Cincinnati Slim

 

[colonialrob]

Dragoon conversion cylinder

I have the 2nd Model Dragoon, and the R&D conversion cylinder. It is so easy (and so much fun) to crank off rounds with this set-up I almost never use the BP cylinder anymore.

I have only used "cowboy" ammo so far, seeing no need for anything possibly more powerful. I have used both the 250 grain rounds and the 200 grain. I would recommend, and I will henceforth only use, the 200 grain rounds. There is a very large difference in the recoil. Many of us actually like the heavier recoil, but I am concerned about the effect on the Dragoon.

When I shoot the 250 grain rounds, the lever always drops (unless I tie it up), and I have actually had the wedge back out, presumably from the recoil. If you want a thrilling moment, as I had, don't pay attention to the wedge, have it back out, and shoot another round that shoots the entire barrell assembly about 10 feet down-range! There were no adverse consequencies, and I simply replaced it and continued to shoot, making SURE the wedge stayed tight (to the amazement of other shooters). I find if I give the wedge a good rap with my brass hammer, it stays in for a full cylinder, but I constantly check it.

After you have used and loaded the conversion cylinder a few times, it's a piece of cake.

colonialrob

 

[unspellable]

R&D conversion

The 45 Colt R&D cylinder is proofed with standard SAAMI 45 Colt proof loads. No pressure problems with the cylinder. All the warnings are because the revolver frame is the weak link. There is just no way an open top colt frame can be as strong as a more modern design. Also, the replicas tend to be made with cheaper steel than modern cartridge revolvers. My R&D is in a Ruger Old Army, by far the strongest cap & ball frame around. I run regular factory loads in it but for any other cap & ball I would back off a bit.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

.45 long Colt

Went to get some .45 lc today and almost had to take out a loan to buy a boxs of 50. It's going to cost $.60 every time I squeeze the trigger.
For ya'll who reload how easy is it and what do you figure it'd cost to reload these using Pyrodex P after I empty them?
Thanks
Bill

 

[Sistema1927]

Reloading is the only way to go. I load a light charge of Trail Boss under a 200 grain RNFP for the .45 Colt for CAS. I shudder to think what it would cost me to shoot factory ammo.

 

[John C]

Shotgun Willie: If you can reload a C'n'B revolver, you can reload cartridges. The process is basically the same, except the priming.

About 15 years ago, when I really started shooting, people told me to get a dillon press and never look back. I was 21, and the setup would've been $300, which I didn't have. They said Lee was crap, and don't bother with it. So I didn't start reloading until about 4 years ago.

Now I have a couple of dillons, and you know what? All those people were right. Buy a dillon and never look back. But, I use a lot of lee products, including a single stage and all my die sets. My advice would be to buy a simple lee kit for $80, a set of dies, and start reloading. If you like it, upgrade. If you don't, sell it and eat the $40 loss. In the meantime you'll probably load more than $40 of ammo.

-John

 

[Novus Collectus]

Shotgun Willy, what John C said.

Reloading low pressure .45 Long Colt for a revolver is very forgiving of any sloppiness (except for too much powder). If you buy a cheap Lee reloading kit for $80 bucks, it will pay for itself in no time compared to buying Winchester cowboy loads.
Since it is low pressure, the brass lasts a very long time with smokeless powder loads.

 

[drdirk]

Definitely a good idea to reload for a cap and ball with a conversion cylinder. I use a ROA and reload with win 231 and 200 gr lead bullets. Easy to do and the overall cartridge length is not as critical. Reloading also allows to make lighter loads than factory. Saves money and is more fun to shoot. Just stay at the lower end of the recommended charge of your reloading manual. I have not used trailboss myself but heard good things about it. I pretty much reload everything with win 231 as a good all around pistol powder.

 

[Novus Collectus]

Plus one on the Win 231 for .45 LC. Works great for me in .45 ACP too especially in the Lee powder measure.

 

[Pulp]

An even lower cost option for reloading is the Lee Loader. Under $20.00. It has every thing you need. You can take it to the range, sit on your couch, or anywhere else. They make very high quality ammo, just a bit on the slow side. If you want extra flexibility with it, purchase a set of the Lee Dippers.

Link to Midway USA Lee Loader in .45 Colt:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=647702&t=11082005

Back to the original question. I have a R&D cylinder for one of my Walker Colts. I'm very pleased with it. I did have to send it back (with the gun) for a bit of fine fitting, but it's been perfect since then. R&D also makes a kit that allows you to attach a loading gate and extractor rod to some revolvers. I don't know if they make it for the Dragoon though.

 

[230RN]

Romancing the Remmy

I got an R&D .45 Colt cylinder (from Midway) for a recently-purchased Uberti Remmy 1858.

Needed a little fitting, only had an opportunity to shoot 5 rd through it.

Used Magtech Cowboy Action loads -- 250 gr lead bullet at 761 fs.

Performed well, but had trouble getting the next cylinder-full of five rounds back into the gun with the empty chamber on top there at the range, with everyone admiring my struggles, so I quit fooling with it.

There's a kind of "knack" to reinstalling the cylinder with this gun that I practiced later.

The five rounds were out of a squeaky-clean barrel at fifteen yards, so they showed vertical stringing, but the horizontal group was only two inches.

I looked up some loads for it with HP-38 powder (the old 231, I believe), and in Cowboy Action velocities with a 200-gr bullet, some of them exceed .45 ACP energies, but I don't have the numbers available right now. (See EDIT below.)

Not suitable for CCW, but in a pinch, could be a respectable sidearm. The muzzle looks like you could drive a VW into it.

So. There's my "expertise" with a whole five (count 'em, five) rounds through it. Can't wait to get it back to the range. And by the way, I bought the cylinder for the same reason someone else did --to shoot the gun at a smokeless-only range.

Dam fool that I am, I couldn't resist buying the gun because of its Siren-like song and its Helen-like beauty and its Loren-like body.

Yum.

When I got it home, all I could say to myself was "OK, smart@ss, now what?" I was glad to find that there was such a thing as a conversion cylinder.

(Midway's customer service was outstanding, by the way.)

EDIT: The Hodgden manual shows a max Cowboy Action load of 8 gr HP-38 with a 200 gr bullet as yielding 1002 fs for an energy of 446 ft-lbs.

Compare to 230 gr .45 ACP at 850 fs for an energy of 369 ft-lb and a .357 Mag load for the 158-gr bullet at 1220 fs, yeilding an energy of 522 ft-lb.

Right between 'em, eh? Formidable!