MCgunner
Member
Oh, was this about the new Smith Governor? Sorry. 
Got off on a "who's innovative" train of thought.
Got off on a "who's innovative" train of thought.
Anyone else disappointed with the S&W Governor announcement?
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Like Taurus or not the "Judge" has been a success for a reason. The guns are useful and are great up close for self defense for anybody that can squeeze a trigger. S&W is trying to get a piece of the market that Taurus is cashing in on.
True enough, but that "reason" is the ignorance of much of the general shooting public(especially brand new and therefore pretty ignorant CCL customers) that sees "shotgun shells in a handgun" and imagine close range devastating effectiveness with scarcely a need to aim. It's success was due to the existing "lore of the shotgun" that Taurus successfully tapped into. Never mind that the gun is extremely bulky, and that the reputation of shotguns as man stoppers was certainly not built on the 410, a shell many considered on the marginal side even for game as small as squirrels. I am sure some people buy it for the novelty, a "snake gun" or as a plinker, which is perfectly fine if you understand what your getting, I just find it somewhere between laughable and irritating when I see someone who obviously knows little about guns being sold a bulky 410 revolver as if they are the the greatest advancement in personal defense since the advent of cartridge firing weapons.
In the real world a 410 loaded with a couple of large buckshot would likely show about the same effectiveness with the same type hits as a 38 special 158 gr round nose. Of course anything can kill, but it is not exactly likely to be tops in effectiveness, and you can get the same practical performance in a much less bulky and more ergonomic weapon. If you say load it with 45's, well and good, but then there isn't much point in the 410 aspect and there are many far smaller and more ergonomic 45's too.
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NMGonzo
Member
Wow ... two camps here.
What focus groups have S&W used to brand their new product?
What focus groups have S&W used to brand their new product?
Nushif
Member
Pretty sure the judge advertises the .45 Colt cartridge. Not every .45 is an ACP.
That being said I haven't googled this "governor" but I highly doubt it'll shoot .45 colt, .45 ACP and .410. If it does that would blow my mind.
That being said I haven't googled this "governor" but I highly doubt it'll shoot .45 colt, .45 ACP and .410. If it does that would blow my mind.
MrGreenMachine
Member
S&W like most of these other guys are just coming to the table a day late and a dollar short to really make money off these. I wouldn't knock S&W if they had released the "Governor" a few months after the "Judge". But come on the Judge has been on the shelves for what almost two years now and Taurus just keeps adding options on! So S&W rather than spending two years figuring out if we can make a few bucks off these how bout you hit the market when you see the instant success! I dont think anyone can contest the fact that the Judge was pretty much a hit right off the bat with it's WOW factor.
While there are a few exceptions, in general you don't usually see S&W behave as a market innovator. That's not in the company's DNA.
In software parlance, "that's a feature, not a bug."
Smaller companies like Kel-Tec have to innovate because they can find success with niche products. S&W offers a different value proposition: no risk.
In software parlance, "that's a feature, not a bug."
Smaller companies like Kel-Tec have to innovate because they can find success with niche products. S&W offers a different value proposition: no risk.
MCgunner
Member
I can agree a bit with SPW1's assessment that these guns appeal to the somewhat uneducated gun buyer. There are people ON THIS BOARD who think the shotgun is the end all weapon. I mean, that big 12 gauge "bullet" (aka slug) HAS to be devistating, right, never mind the lack of sectional density. They go so far as to suggest it's better than a .577 Nitro for African game. Yeah, the projectile is bigger around. So what? The shotgun is a really versatile weapon, but it's main bailiwick is bird hunting and will remain so. The 20 or the 12 is a viable CQB weapon, but that don't extend to the .410 out of a 6" barrel. I'd cut off the excess cylinder and call it a .45 Colt, myself. But, that's JMO. I was going to say it was JMHO, but I've been told I'm not so humble.
I think these guns might have a purpose, though, in thin walled appartments. But, there are other options and that's a mighty narrow niche for a firearm that sells so well. People aren't buying them for apartment defense.
Yeah, the projectile is bigger around. So what? The shotgun is a really versatile weapon, but it's main bailiwick is bird hunting and will remain so. The 20 or the 12 is a viable CQB weapon, but that don't extend to the .410 out of a 6" barrel. I'd cut off the excess cylinder and call it a .45 Colt, myself. But, that's JMO. I was going to say it was JMHO, but I've been told I'm not so humble. I think these guns might have a purpose, though, in thin walled appartments. But, there are other options and that's a mighty narrow niche for a firearm that sells so well. People aren't buying them for apartment defense.
yeti
Member
Nushif
Member
If they put a good trigger on that I may even buy one when I have the money.
Kinda behind the curve on this one, but I get it. As always its about the $$$.
Its still a dumb gun idea no matter who makes it though.
If they are going to start making copies of other companies guns I'm crossing my fingers for a S&W version of the Charter Arms Bulldog .44 next!!
Its still a dumb gun idea no matter who makes it though.
If they are going to start making copies of other companies guns I'm crossing my fingers for a S&W version of the Charter Arms Bulldog .44 next!!
MCgunner
Member
If you want to get really picky about who copied who, Taurus copied the Thunder Five, at least in concept. I don't like the sights or lack there of on the Thunder Five, but it's the first REVOLVER I ever heard of that fired .410 and .45 Colt.
earlthegoat said,
earl, if you go to the S&W Forum and spend some time you will find as much criticism of the current S&W as on any other board, maybe more. Many of us over there see the older stuff as much more desirable and just plane better.
Dave (SWCA Member, S&W Forum member)
earl, if you go to the S&W Forum and spend some time you will find as much criticism of the current S&W as on any other board, maybe more. Many of us over there see the older stuff as much more desirable and just plane better.
Dave (SWCA Member, S&W Forum member)
lf l wanted a 410/45 it would NOT be a Taurus. Their quality doesnt meet my standards. So that leaves Smith & Wesson. They say its built on a 'Y' frame. l guess its probably a lengthened 'N' frame. The EXTRA bullet is a plus for the Smith. They wisely chose not to chember it for the 3'' 410. My dislike for the gun centers around the juvenile name they chose for it. Smith is doing what any savvy company does. Satisfying the market. l predict there will many used Judges on the market in a couple years
RX-178
Member
The S&W governor fires .45 ACP because the cylinder is cut for moon clips from the factory. You can have a gunsmith do the same to a Taurus Judge.
JR47
Member
Amazing, now we have someone polling the majority of owners of the Judge and Governor, to give us the "why" that caused them to buy it. Or, maybe we have just another Internet Commando making sweeping statements based on their own personal opinion.
Let it go. The gun is a success story for Taurus, and will, most likely, provide S&W with a modicum of success. Especially given the fact that S&W enjoys the results of a century plus of history, unmarred by actual results in their on again, off again, QC.
Snubshooter
Member
If Smith can make money on the "gov" fine, I just wish they would reintroduce a 9mm J frame and a .44 SS L frame two items their real customers have pined for.
XxWINxX94
Member
Yup, they were a little late to hop on the bandwagon.
JMACDONALD
Member
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Mass legal
The Judge is not on the Attorney General's approved list. Almost all new Smith & Wessons are. Supply and demand.
The Judge is not on the Attorney General's approved list. Almost all new Smith & Wessons are. Supply and demand.
JR, I see your point and anyone who denies Taurus's success with The Judge is only fooling themselves. That said, however, newly minted CCW's have some ill-conceived perceptions regarding what makes a good defense revolver. I can't tell you how many people I have overheard at the range, at gun shows, etc., saying something like this: "Duuuuuude, that Judge is AWESOME. It's like having a shotgun in your hand!" Their perception is, unfortunately, that they're getting 12-gauge personal defense performance in an easy-to-tote package, but the reality is far from that. The Judge would make for a good snake gun, but a 410 load in a short-barreled firearm is not the best for self defense by a long shot.
A number of S&W purists expected Smith to stay away from this silliness, but the lure of the market was just too strong to deny. I can't say that I don't blame them for wanting a piece of that market and steal some market share away from Taurus, but when the revolver was ultimately named "The Governor", it made me cringe. I have no doubt that The Governor will make a lot of money for S&W and help fill their coffers, but hopefully we will see S&W get back into a leadership role and innovate again.
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