Anyone else here think a bone-stock Colt is the king of 1911s?

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Drjones

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I see so many threads asking "what type of 1911," "whats the best 1911" etc. and every time I reply, "Colt 1991A1." (Or some other milspec Colt if legal in your area.)

Is there anyone else who just thinks the original brand is best and doesn't like all the bells and whistles found on many other 1911s?

I'm by no means saying that the other 1911s are bad guns; most are fine weapons. I just think a bone-stock Colt is the best.

Am I alone?
 
I like mine pretty well.

But I'd hesitate to claim that it is "the best" or "the king".

It does what I need it to do, in the environment that I use it and it does it well. Might not be so great for someone with different requirements or different tastes with different hands, different eyes and different training.
 
Best factory new 1911 for around $570? You can make a strong case for that with Colt's current 01991 series guns. Reliable, accurate, and good lookin', with less materials short-cutting than the competition... or any current 1911 up to about $1,000 or so, for that matter.

But it is still a mass-produced gun, so there is always room for some improvement. For instance, Colts have alot of sharp edges on them. The ones with spur hammers can give you hammer bite, so some people will want the hammer shortened about 1/8" to fix that. There ARE better sights than the standard Colt 3-dot jobs. And so on.

Without bashing other brands (I had a pre-Series II Kimber that was nice), the only 1911-style guns that I personally care for now are Colts.
 
All Alone is We?

Drjones asked:

Am I alone?

Nope.

Aside from a little buff and polish here and there...additional prep work
and tending to anything that might affect reliability.that Colt doesn't seem inclined to do any more, I like'em just as they are for looks and ergonomics. A heavy-use range gun will get a drop-in grip safety to keep my hand from gettin' blistered, but I don't count that, and don't carry one with the grip safety. The difference in feel doesn't affect my shooting when I switch back to the standard grip safety.

Other than that, I say leave'em alone...at least IMHO.

Cheers doc!

Tuner
 
Bone stock Colt if made between 1938 and 1945 and marked "U.S. Property".

Jim
 
I'm with you, Doc...

Most of the 'problems' associated with the design could be cured by simply sticking with the original blueprint, and using quality, forged parts. I've owned a bucketfull of these guns over the years and the two absolute best ones I ever had were a 1945 Ithaca, and a late-90's 1991A1 Commander. Both had better-than-GI sights, which is a sensible upgrade. So is a usable trigger, but most 1911's come with usable triggers nowadays anyhow. A good throat and polish, decent magazines (spelled METALFORM) and you are good to go.
 
Blueprint

Sarge said:

Most of the 'problems' associated with the design could be cured by simply sticking with the original blueprint, and using quality, forged parts

Sarge! Testify!

I'll go further and say that probably 99% of the problems prevalent today
could be solved by doin' just that....and the 1% that's left is gonna crop
up no matter who builds the gun. Hell...they could cure about 90%
by just usin' good extractors and good magazine springs.

Fire the bean counters...Fire'em I say! Give us back our pistols!

Cheers!

Tuner
 
I think the best were made during the late 1940's into the middle 1950's The materials used, particularly in the slide, were better then that used during the war, but attention to detail during manufacture and assembly was still "in." So far as fitting and polish is concerned I'd go for "C" serial numbered guns made during the Great Depression years (1930 - 1940).

Modifications? If we are talking about those early post-war guns I'd dump the "Coltwood" plastic grips for checkered walnut and install better sights. Trigger pulls were usually good out of the box. If the hammer bit I would remove a little metal from the underside of the spur. Might also install a pre-war wide spur as one would probably be laying around.

Other then that I wouldn't have to replace any parts -- because they were top quality in the first place. But I'll admit, if Colt (or anyone else) marketed such a gun today I likely couldn't afford it.
 
I like my Colt Combat Commander very much. It has an excellent fit and finish and so far, has been 100% reliable. I bought it instead of a 1911 from another manufacturer because the Colt has machined internal parts, except for the recoil plug and the magazine release button. Other manufacturers in the sub-$1000 price range use MIM parts, except, perhaps, for the SW1911 and the SIG GSR, which I like also. The edges on my Colt are fine and I would not hesitate to buy another based on my experience so far. My opinion is shared by others, as noted on the 1911 forum. The reviews there on the new Colts and my personal observations motivated me to buy one. I also called Colt to ask questions about them and spoke to Cindy, who was very helpful. It is great to see that an American manufacturing icon is making first class products. Some say that the new 1991 Colts are as good or better than any they have ever made. This is quite a turnaround for Colt because just a few years ago, their 1911s had a reputation for poor quality.
 
Colt's MIM parts

unitman said:

because the Colt has machined internal parts, except for the recoil plug and the magazine release button....

...and the sears...and up until recectly, the extractors.

Welcome in unitman...Pull up a chair and join the fray.:cool:

Tuner
 
As an example...

of the "original blueprint theory" at work-

Last year I swapped for a ragged, beaten-down Auto Ordnance "Pit Bull", on a lark. Rode hard, put up wet. But the pinholes looked good & in spec, and the mag release port was good & snug. The recoil spring was shot, the bushing broke on about the third mag, and the extractor was soft, as was the firing pin and stop. The firing pin stop was downright sloppy, and the slide stop was worn badly. I replaced the bushing & springs with Ed Brown goodies for the Officers ACP; the rest of the stuff was replaced with John Masen GI parts from Brownells. Some Metalform 7-round mags with the rounded followers finished out the project.

After re-fitting the barrel hood (too long), replacing the small stuff, and a careful modification of the slide for the FLGR, the little gun was reassembled- and ran 100% with everything I threw at it (SWC's, ball & Sierra 230/JHC's) , and grouped under 2 1/2" at 25 yards. The SWC reloads I build with H&G 68's and W231, and really crappy brass that gets scarfed off an outdoor range. This is my "blammer" load and ALL brass that will go in the sizing die gets used here. There are an occasional few that get finished with a big dent in the case, but I load them anyhow. Maybe one in every 200 is crooked enough that it will jam anything. 250 rounds of these went through the rebuilt A/O, without incident.

So there you have it. A very tired and "non-GI" little 1911, made whole by replacing the frame goodies with GI parts. 1911's shorter than Commander length are notorious for function problems- but as has been stated repeatedly here, an awful lot of 1911 problems can be cured by just by building in good quality, GI-spec internals, and good magazines. This has worked for me on numerous occasions. I spent 10 years as a FTO for an agency where you could carry any sane handgun, and a lot of my guys brought 1911's to qualifications. I got pretty fair at finding cheap fixes for a bunch of dedicated but underpaid cops. If you start with a good frame and slide, and pay attention to what you're doing, the "GI rebuild" works.

If I can make an old A/O Pit Bull reliable by (re)building it with good-quality GI parts, the #$^&*( manufacturers can surely build GM's and Commanders that work. Forget the Schwartz safety and two-piece barrels; forget the beaver-butts, accessory rails, and front serrations. They are part of an ad campaign to make you forget that a 1911 is supposed to WORK, first, last, and always, with good magazines and any decent ammunition. Think of them as Christmas ornaments on a horse-weed. Look at the quality, or the lack thereof, underneath the glitter.

PS- Tuner, you and I seem able to remember a time when good 1911's were valued for their function, instead of how many fad-glitzos they had glued or screwed onto them. Keep talking. Eventually somebody will listen.
 
The King?

You tell me.

Ser70_7889.jpg


(This was taken by DHart from 1911forum.com. I wish I could take credit for it. Hope DHart doesn't mind my linking to his site.)
 
Tuner: You got me wondering now about the sear. I am going to call Colt next week to find out which parts are MIM and which are machined, in other words, straight from the horse's mouth (sort of a pun).
 
Auto Ordnance

Ah..Auto Ords...Some of the worst 1911 pattern pistols ever sold at the
retail level...and one of my favorites. GASP! What's that Tuner???

I love AOs. About 4 out of 5 had issues that led the original buyer to
sell for about half what they cost new after little use. About 5 or 6 "jams"
and they're ready to cut their losses and pass the thing along to be somebody else's headache.

Auto Ordnance pistols have allowed me to satisfy an unholy appetite for
sendin' rounds downrange without usin' my trusty old GIs and nice
commercial Colts...and I sure learned a lot about "Improvise. Adapt.
Overcome" from Auto Ordnance 1911s. Some of those things were nightmares...but they can be made to run once ya figger'em out.
If you can get a screwy Auto Ord to run, you can likely get anything to run.

I've shot a few to destruction...Busted many slides and replaced those with
Essex slides..who incidentally used to supply Thompson with frames and
slides. Essex got much better over the last few years, though they still ain't quite on a par with Caspian. The price is right, though. With my
old gunsmith discount still on the books at Brownells, I can have a parked
slide in my hands for a hundred bucks and change...and Springfield service
barrels drop right in and go.

Busted a few frames too, and I just keep switchin' and swappin' parts
back and forth so I can come up with another "Ugly old Beater" that
keeps on shuckin' while the Baer shooters are tryin' to clear their jams.

Life is good!

Tuner
 
Unitman callin' Colt?

No need unitman...There's a way you can look and tell.

Detail-strip the gun and have a look at the part in question. Extractor?
Look at the rear end at the 6 O'clock position. If there's a rectangle-shaped indentation, it's MIM. Sear? Look on the side for any shallow,
round depressions...MIM again. Grip safety. Look on the inside for a square depression. You guessed it...MIM. Those are sprue marks
where the metal was injected into the mould. If they're not there,
they're machined barstock.

FWIW, I've never seen a Colt MIM sear fail, even under hard use.
Never seen a Colt MIM mag catch fail either.
Can't say the same about the extractors, though...and I can't say the same for Kimber MIM sears.

MIM...The wave of the future.

Cheers!
Tuner
 
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