Anyone have a TNW Aero Survival Rifle PCC?

WrongHanded

WrongHanded

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https://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p/asrx-cplt-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx.htm

I just found out about these. They take Glock mags, are a take down design, reversible ejection for left hand, are capable of caliber/cartridge conversion via kits, and can be had in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp. But also in 10mm, .357Sig, and .460 Rowland.

Some conversions, like .40S&W to 10mm, require a new lower (the upper being the serialized part) to accommodate the larger mags. But .40S&W to .357Sig doesn't seem even to require a change in bolt, just the barrel, which makes it cheaper.

As a side note: A 124/125gr .357Sig from a 16" barrel is apparently reaching up around 1900fps. I put some data into JBM ballistics, and found that based on that weight and velocity, at 150yds it's still moving at over 1350fps and producing over 500ftlbs. Though that can change quite a bit, based on the ballistic coefficient, it's still pretty impressive. And based on what the calculator spit out for a 180gr 10mm, in the XTP leave the muzzle at 1500fps, it should functionally expand out to 150yds or farther.

They're not exactly cheap though. Does anyone have experience with them?
 
WrongHanded said:
There are some design features I really dislike about the AR. Which is why I don't own one. I'd much rather talk about this PCC than about ARs.
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There are 29 reviews on the website, many are not complimentary so I suspect they are not edited by the manufacturer- a credit to them. Many reports of jamming in 9mm and barrel nuts coming loose.
I have that same stock, branded by Trinity Force, on one of my AR9s and I do like it a lot. Its sturdy, adjusts easily, is very comfortable, has multiple QD points, and has a removeable rubber buttpad- though it is quite heavy for a lightweight build.
 
I had one I bought used in 45ACP. I could not get it to work for an entire 13 round Glock magazine. I changed mags, extractor, ejector, springs, you name it. When it did feed, fire, and extract, it was very accurate. It takes down by easily removing the barrel and collapsing the stock. I sold it at a loss at a gun show after a full disclosure.
 
Nuclear said:
WrongHanded said:
Anyone have a TNW Aero Survival Rifle PCC ... take Glock mags, are a take down design, reversible ejection for left hand, are capable of caliber/cartridge conversion via kits, and can be had in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp. But also in 10mm, .357Sig, and .460 Rowland ... Does anyone have experience with them? ... $919 ... ($230-$410 for caliber conversions)
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I had one ... could not get it to work for an entire 13 round Glock magazine.
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They are copy of the original Just Right carbine - https://justrightcarbines.com/technical-specifications/?v=7516fd43adaa
I bought my Just Right carbine with caliber conversions about 10 years ago and since built several 9mm PCCs using PSA/BCA/Zaviar uppers and kits.

During my PCC load development and accuracy testing at 25/50/100 yards, I found most other 9mm PCC barrels (Including TNW ASR) use 1:10 twist rate compared to 1:16 for Just Right carbine. Glock uses faster 1:10 (Actually 1:9.84) twist rate while most aftermarket match barrels use slower 1:16 and Wilson Combat in recent years switched from 1:10 to 1:16.

Since 1:16 Just Right carbine barrel produced smaller groups than 1:10 PCC uppers, I now use Just Right carbine for my accuracy testing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-4#post-10338994

index.php
 
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I have one in 10mm and a .45acp conversion kit. It wouldn't be my only PCC if I had to choose, but its fun and reasonably reliable. It is very versatile, is available in many different calibers and conversion. Its not a battlefield rifle. It was not built to be a battle rifle. It's purpose is as a backpack or survival rifle. In that regard it is a good rifle.
The biggest cons I have with mine are the trigger and the conversions. The trigger is heavy and is a square piece of steel that has been bent into a curve. Not very comfortable.
The conversion kit gives me a bit of pause as well, since there was no recoil spring included going from 10mm to .45acp. I'm not entirely confident that a recoil spring originally included in a 10mm blowback gun will work reliably with my .45acp plinking loads, but since I haven't tried the .45 kit yet, only time will tell.

I will say one thing. I bought mine as a "souvenir" while driving through Montana on my way back to Washington and I paid $600 nib. It was an impulse buy of sorts on my way back to a state where such rifles are heavily restricted, during a brief window when out of state purchases were still legal.
I wouldn't buy a TNW for MSRP, and I wouldn't choose it over many of the other options on the market.

right side.jpg

If you are looking for something more "battlefield" oriented, their braced pistol is much more suited to that application.

tnwsootch.jpg
 
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Don't know anything about them. First impression is that it's big for a "survival" rifle. Related question: Why are most survival rifles semi-auto? Seems to me that manual actions like bolt or lever would be more durable in extreme conditions.
 
toivo said:
Don't know anything about them. First impression is that it's big for a "survival" rifle. Related question: Why are most survival rifles semi-auto? Seems to me that manual actions like bolt or lever would be more durable in extreme conditions.
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Depends what you're trying to survive against. Bolt actions are fine for non-dangerous game, but if its got teeth/claws or a gun of its own, semiautomatic is a huge advantage.
That, plus a blowback semi is simpler and cheaper to manufacturer than a bolt gun- its basically just a tube with a spring in it.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Depends what you're trying to survive against. Bolt actions are fine for non-dangerous game, but if its got teeth/claws or a gun of its own, semiautomatic is a huge advantage.
That, plus a blowback semi is simpler and cheaper to manufacturer than a bolt gun- its basically just a tube with a spring in it.
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Which begs the question what the appeal is when it’s the same weight, same length, more expensive, less reliable, and much less powerful than a 223, 300 blk, or 7.62x39 AR-15. I can only really think of 2 advantages. One would be ammo cost for plinking, but only the 9mm version would offer a significant savings on ammo. 2nd would be it can share ammo/mags with your carry handgun, but I find this to be a pretty dubious advantage honestly in any practical sense.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Bolt actions are fine for non-dangerous game, but if its got teeth/claws or a gun of its own, semiautomatic is a huge advantage.
That, plus a blowback semi is simpler and cheaper to manufacturer than a bolt gun- its basically just a tube with a spring in it.
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True, but in those cases I want a long gun that shoots something heftier than 9mm. And semi-autos may be cheaper to produce, but that wouldn't be my main concern if I was choosing a rifle that had to be rock-solid reliable in all conditions forever.

You're right that a lot depends on what kind of survival scenario you expect to be in.
 
someguy2800 said:
Which begs the question what the appeal is when it’s the same weight, same length, more expensive, less reliable, and much less powerful than a 223, 300 blk, or 7.62x39 AR-15. I can only really think of 2 advantages. One would be ammo cost for plinking, but only the 9mm version would offer a significant savings on ammo. 2nd would be it can share ammo/mags with your carry handgun, but I find this to be a pretty dubious advantage honestly in any practical sense.
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Welcome to pcc's.
Once you get over the fact that they are for the most part obsolete, you can start enjoying them for what they are.
 
someguy2800 said:
Don’t mean to drag off topic but I’m curious what those features are? They are made in so many variations I wonder if those features could simply be avoided with part selection.
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If you really want to know, I don't like the charging handle.
 
TNW makes accessories such as a lighter trigger and longer handguard that preserves the takedown feature. Those add more cost while addressing some of the cons.

Interesting to me but not interesting enough to buy one, at least not yet.

 
As a side note on the ammo question: I already reload a variety of pistol ammo. I do not reload 5.56, and don't really want to. So the ammo cost for .357Sig or 10mm isn't a concern to me.
 
Have one in 10mm. Other posts have pretty much summed it up. My interest was to have a carbine barrel to test reload performance vs pistol length barrels. For that simple task, it performs admirably. Would love to have the MP5/10 for 10mm PCC fun but they are much more expensive and mostly on a form.

It fits a niche. A very tight niche. Same company makes some belt-fed that'd be more fun...
 
WrongHanded said:
Okay, I'm interested. So what companies produce them for under $1K?
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I built this one for about $500, but if you do a search for "side charging AR9 upper" there are options to buy something similar complete. Foxtrot Mike for example makes one with a forward mounted non reciprocating charging handle kind of like an MP5. Gibbs makes a non reciprocating left side upper. BCA and Davidson have reciprocating left side uppers.

this was my build list

Complete lower with FCG and brace from Palmetto was like $160
BCA stripped side charging upper (blem) $40
9mm bolt carrier group (I drilled and tapped it for the charging handle myself) $100
Faxon barrel $100 (non suppressed) Ballistic advantage barrel $50 (suppressed)
handguard $40
UTG flip sights $40
AR10 extra power recoil spring $10

I later added a Scheel Roller delay buffer tube to it, which is about $275, so now I have a true roller delay gun for well less than $1K. Actually even if you included both of my uppers it would still be just a little over $1K.

Mine uses colt SMG mags which are like $20 each but lots of options for pistol mag lowers.
 
I've not really looked into what goes into building a 357 sig or 10mm AR so I have no idea how hard that is to make work. Of course in an AR the lower is the serialized part so if you want to be able to convert from 9mm over to 10mm or 45mm you would have to switch lowers or I suppose you could use magwell adapters to switch. A 9mm lower or 9mm magwell adapter would also work for 40 s&w or 357 sig mags though so you could have a 9mm and 357 sig upper and switch just by pulling the takedown pins and swap the whole upper.
 
WrongHanded said:
So what companies produce them for under $1K?
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BCA manufactures left charging (Along with rear charging) uppers starting at $249 - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/9mm/9mm-complete-uppers/left-side-charging.html

Charging handle eliminates the need for forward assist as you can push foward/bump on charging handle to chamber a round to full battery. But the BCA left charging uppers are still right ejecting design, as well as most others with charging handle.

With Just Right carbine, not only is the charging handle ambidextrous, so is the ejection by simply swapping out the ejection port cover from left to right. :thumbup:

To me, when the term "survival" is used to describe a rifle like the Henry AR-7, I get the sense of compromise and sacrifice, particularly in accuracy. In contrast, Just Right carbines were designed and manufactured with "full service" in mind starting with longer 17" barrel to endure the rigors of 3-gun match shooting in the early days that put Just Right carbine on the map with accuracy for match shooting. (And believe me, us USPSA match shooters shoot a lot and push our match guns to the limits and break things ordinary shooters may never experience. Shooting 120,000+ rounds through my first Glock 17, I have seen Glocks slow down after 4000 rounds of not cleaning, "consumable" parts like springs/mag followers wear and even factory parts break)

As to accuracy, some "take down" models sacrifice on accuracy as a compromise to compactness. When I started shooting new 10/22 Take Down during the 30,000 round "real world" testing with various ammunition, I noticed that any pressure on the forearm by front rest deviated POI away from POA. No matter how tight I got the barrel ring, there was input on 50 yard groups. This was the primary reason why I decided to buy another new 10/22 but not in a Take Down model (I ended up buying Collector #3 from PSA when they ran a promotional sale for $199 and new T/CR22 as factory Magpul stock would readily accommodate bull barrel with forearm insert removed).

But for Just Right carbine, take down barrel tube replaces normal barrel ring so the take down model is just as accurate as the regular model as you simply convert a regular model to take down model by using the take down barrel tube. And as far as I know, Just Right carbine is one of few manufacturers that uses 1:16 twist rate barrel for 9mm (Instead of 1:10) that has demonstrated greater accuracy for my accuracy testing (Hence why all other aftermarket match barrels are 1:16 with the exception of KKM which uses even slower 1:24)

Since Colt pattern 9mm PCC that used stick magazines which forced bullet nose to bump the feed ramp during feeding, need for more reliable feeding is what pushed/migrated PCC designs to Glock pattern lowers which essentially points the next round in the magazine straight towards the chamber so the cycling bolt simply hammers the round into the chamber for very reliable operation. And reliability of feeding has been tested for Just Right carbines under the rigors of match shooting conditions where high round count is shot out of dirty actions.
 
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