Anyone have any trigger pull tips for a new Model 617?

[Riomouse911]

Ok, I ran another 250 rounds of bulk ammo through it, 75 were the last of a box of Aguila Super Extra and the rest Federal Auto Match.

The pull is smoothing out but it still has that stack. A buddy fired 10 through it DA. He kept them in a 2” circle @10 yds by staging the trigger pull. (For those who may not know what that is; staging is basically starting the DA trigger pull and then stopping juuust as the cylinder locks and before the hammer falls. The shooter then does a final alignment of the sights and finishes the stroke.)

I don’t stage my DA triggers, I prefer to do a smooth, consistent stroke all the way through. But, this silly wall makes that tough!

After a bunch of DA shots just fired to get rounds through the gun (orange target), I settled down to shoot some DA shots to see whether or not things were getting better.




Things were better than the first couple of times it was shot, so that’s a good sign. The bottom right was fired SA @10, I have no issues with the SA pull.

I got it home, cleaned the residue off/out of it and tried the DA trigger pull on my Lyman gauge again.

DA average was down to 11 lb 3 oz, which if it was smooth and consistent would not be too bad. I realized that the strain screw was bottomed out when I brought it home so I had bottomed out the strain screw when I reassembled it. Having not tried this yet I backed it off slightly more than a half turn and the “DA wall” wasn’t there anymore. Over 5 pulls it now registers a much more consistent 9 lb 8 oz in DA and 3 lb 7 oz in SA.

I plan on going back on Wednesday, if cartridge ignition is still 100% then I may have found my fix. If this is it, I will buy the set of various length strain screws mentioned elsewhere and make this more permanent. If not, I will start looking elsewhere.

Stay safe.

 

[J-Bar]

You will hear S&W armorers say that one should keep the strain screw all the way in, but it's hard for me to criticize your fix. You might consider dressing down the tip of the strain screw a bit (shortening it a Red Hair!) to allow it to be tightened and prevent loosening under recoil.

 

[Riomouse911]

You will hear S&W armorers say that one should keep the strain screw all the way in, but it's hard for me to criticize your fix. You might consider dressing down the tip of the strain screw a bit (shortening it a Red Hair!) to allow it to be tightened and prevent loosening under recoil.

Yeah, if this is the fix with the oem spring I will do just that. If it is needing an aftermarket spring I will fiddle with the depth , or buy the suggested screw kit above to find the right length. Somewhere I hope the happy medium is found.

I want to shoot it again tomorrow, I will report on the results if I do get out.

Stay safe.

 

[halfmoonclip]

The geometry of the 10 shot cylinder has already been mentioned, and may factor in. The advice on Smith ratchets was always to back-drag the engagement surfaces with a fine file, the idea being to not remove much metal.
The poor man's Prussian blue (aka, magic marker) may help finding the rub spots.
Polishing the hand itself can also be a help. How freely does the cylinder turn? Clean the arbor, lightly lube it, and treat the reassembled cylinder to a compressed air spin.
Personally, I like an 11 or 12lb rebound spring, and a ribbed mainspring may work. Yeah, .22s are hinky.
Smith revos can make you crazy; they're all basically the same, but some smooth up better than others.
Moon

 

[Riomouse911]

The geometry of the 10 shot cylinder has already been mentioned, and may factor in. The advice on Smith ratchets was always to back-drag the engagement surfaces with a fine file, the idea being to not remove much metal.
The poor man's Prussian blue (aka, magic marker) may help finding the rub spots.
Polishing the hand itself can also be a help. How freely does the cylinder turn? Clean the arbor, lightly lube it, and treat the reassembled cylinder to a compressed air spin.
Personally, I like an 11 or 12lb rebound spring, and a ribbed mainspring may work. Yeah, .22s are hinky.
Smith revos can make you crazy; they're all basically the same, but some smooth up better than others.
Moon

It turns freely, no hang up on that.

I did shoot it today. Arrrgh! That stacky DA pull just isn’t happenin’.

Shooting two-hand DA, my 5” .38 Spl 14-4 put 18 into one 1” hole at 7 yards. (Top). (My favorite plate rack load; a coated148 gr RNL over 3.5 gr Unique.) The 6” 617 could barely do 20 DA shots of Auto Match in 3” at the same distance. Shooting SA, it’s about a 1”- 1.25” gun at 7 yds.

After seeing things weren’t very much better than Monday’s session, I basically fired another 250 Federal Auto Match through it rapid fire DA at blank paper just trying to get stuff inside to smooth and mesh.



So far, this somewhat expensive revolver has been a bit of a blah! (Almost $900.00 when everything is added up.)

I will keep at it and see if anything improves.

Stay safe.

 

[J-Bar]

Get it fixed or send it down the road with full disclosure. Otherwise the continued frustration will eat at you. Been there, happened to me. Life is too short to endure stuff like this. Put your money in a better hole.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I already said this, it doesn't seem to be the gun since you say the accuracy is good when you stage the trigger.
It does sound like a difficult trigger to master but like said above,fix it or sell it if you can't shoot it well.

Sorry I didn't read the entire thread, did you contact S&W and tell them what's going on with your revolver?
It might need a trip back to it's first home for work.

 

[Riomouse911]

I already said this, it doesn't seem to be the gun since you say the accuracy is good when you stage the trigger.
It does sound like a difficult trigger to master but like said above,fix it or sell it if you can't shoot it well.

Sorry I didn't read the entire thread, did you contact S&W and tell them what's going on with your revolver?
It might need a trip back to it's first home for work.

The accuracy, and trigger pull, is ok in SA. It is not good at all in DA. I do my best not to stage DA triggers, with DA revolvers and autos I pull straight through. It is the awful mid-pull wall that triples the poundage, and then quickly fires, is what I am trying to find a solution to overcome with this gun.

I shoot a lot of DA revolvers, K frame models 10,13,14,15,17,18,19, 64, 65, 66, 67 and now 617 are my current cadre of mid frame S&W’s. (I also have J, L and N frames, too.) If I don’t shoot some sort of revolver once or twice weekly, then at minimum it’s every every 10 days or so. (Being retired, I’m now at the range 2-3x week) Sadly, this doggone 617 has so far really been a high dollar disappointment.

If the guys who shoot a S&W Model 617 in rimfire IDPA or similar speed-target competitions have this ridiculous stacky trigger pull, and can hit their targets/plates, they are true masters. None of my other S&W’s have such a mid-pull wall, even my 3” Airweight 317 10-shot .22 LR DA trigger is better than this.

I am just searching for a fix if there is one, these Model 617 DA triggers can’t all be this bad and still sell.

As for contacting S&W, I have a 6.5” Model 624 .44 Spl. currently back in Springfield awaiting a determination to fix what seems like a warped crane. (A 686+ I have had a warped crane issue.) If I can’t find a home-brewed solution to fix this Model 617 trigger pull, I will reach out to S&W once the 624 is back home. (It’s been there a month so far.)

Again, thanks for all the responses. I appreciate all the knowledge THR members have and the willingness to help out when members are stuck with a funky-gun issue like I am.

Stay safe.

 

[ontarget]

The accuracy, and trigger pull, is ok in SA. It is not good at all in DA. I do my best not to stage DA triggers, with DA revolvers and autos I pull straight through. It is the awful mid-pull wall that triples the poundage, and then quickly fires, is what I am trying to find a solution to overcome with this gun.

I shoot a lot of DA revolvers, K frame models 10,13,14,15,17,18,19, 64, 65, 66 and now 617 are my current cadre of mid frame S&W’s. (I also have J, L and N frames, too.) If I don’t shoot some sort of revolver once or twice weekly, then at minimum it’s every every 10 days or so. (Being retired, I’m now at the range 2-3x week) Sadly, this doggone 617 has so far really been a high dollar disappointment.

If the guys who shoot a S&W Model 617 in rimfire IDPA or similar speed-target competitions have this ridiculous stacky trigger pull, and can hit their targets/plates, they are true masters. None of my other S&W’s have such a mid-pull wall, even my 3” Airweight 317 10-shot .22 LR DA trigger is better than this.

I am just searching for a fix if there is one, these Model 617 DA triggers can’t all be this bad and still sell.

As for contacting S&W, I have a 6.5” Model 624 .44 Spl. currently back in Springfield awaiting a determination to fix what seems like a warped crane. (A 686+ I have had a warped crane issue.) If I can’t find a home-brewed solution to fix this Model 617 trigger pull, I will reach out to S&W once the 624 is back home. (It’s been there a month so far.)

Again, thanks for all the responses. I appreciate all the knowledge THR members have and the willingness to help out when members are stuck with a funky-gun issue like I am.

Stay safe.

Rio, have you tried the trigger pull on a different 617? Maybe they are all stacky like yours?
I've never shot a 617 so I don't know. Might be worth a try. You may be trying to solve a problem that has no solution if that's just the way they are across the board. I hope you can get it ironed out.
If there is a solution I'm sure you'll find it sooner or later. Good luck.

 

[Riomouse911]

Rio, have you tried the trigger pull on a different 617? Maybe they are all stacky like yours?
I've never shot a 617 so I don't know. Might be worth a try. You may be trying to solve a problem that has no solution if that's just the way they are across the board. I hope you can get it ironed out.
If there is a solution I'm sure you'll find it sooner or later. Good luck.

Good idea.
I don’t know anyone around here that has one. I’ll ask my FFL, they may know or even have one in inventory, and also the guys at the range. One of those guys shot it last week and even he was not very impressed by how this one feels through the DA stroke.

Stay safe.

 

[ontarget]

Good idea.
I don’t know anyone around here that has one. I’ll ask my FFL, they may know or even have one in inventory, and also the guys at the range. One of those guys shot it last week and even he was not very impressed by how this one feels through the DA stroke.

Stay safe.

That sucks. The triggers on my 17, 18, and pre 18 are all very good by rimfire revolver standards. Very smooth.

 

[MrBorland]

I mentioned I also have a 4" 617 with a noticeable "hitch" in the DA trigger, though I've no way to know, of course, how bad it is relative to yours, though.

I am (or was) an admitted DA trigger snob, and am also a proponent of the "straight to the rear" trigger pull. Nonetheless, I supposed I've dealt with this "hitchy" trigger by simply dealing with and accepting the stack until I actually get fed up enough with it to do something about it. Below are old targets, shot way back when I was shooting quite a bit more than I am now, but it hints at the potential accuracy of it, even with the hitchy trigger.

My conclusion has been that, yes, the hitch in mine is real, and it forces me to physically stage the trigger a bit, but I'm mentally pulling straight back (even with the physical stage), so I'm committing to executing the shot from the beginning, and also less likely to yank than if I were consciously staging the trigger.

I'm not necessarily suggesting you ought to be satisfied with your 617 as it is, but you asked if others have had an issue with their 617. Before you throw in the towel, though, maybe contact a decent gunsmith - an email or phone call to, say Ahlmans, might be helpful.

Ahlman's Handgun Work

www.ahlmans.com

4" 617, 10 yards, standing, unsupported, double action


And at 25 yards, my 617 again (standing, unsupported, double action):

 

[Riomouse911]

I mentioned I also have a 4" 617 with a noticeable "hitch" in the DA trigger, though I've no way to know, of course, how bad it is relative to yours, though.

I am (or was) an admitted DA trigger snob, and am also a proponent of the "straight to the rear" trigger pull. Nonetheless, I supposed I've dealt with this "hitchy" trigger by simply dealing with and accepting the stack until I actually get fed up enough with it to do something about it. Below are old targets, shot way back when I was shooting quite a bit more than I am now, but it hints at the potential accuracy of it, even with the hitchy trigger.

My conclusion has been that, yes, the hitch in mine is real, and it forces me to physically stage the trigger a bit, but I'm mentally pulling straight back (even with the physical stage), so I'm committing to executing the shot from the beginning, and also less likely to yank than if I were consciously staging the trigger.

I'm not necessarily suggesting you ought to be satisfied with your 617 as it is, but you asked if others have had an issue with their 617. Before you throw in the towel, though, maybe contact a decent gunsmith - an email or phone call to, say Ahlmans, might be helpful.

Ahlman's Handgun Work

www.ahlmans.com

4" 617, 10 yards, standing, unsupported, double action
View attachment 1167319

And at 25 yards, my 617 again (standing, unsupported, double action):
View attachment 1167320

Nice! Love the Michulek grips!

I’m going to keep at it to solve this gun. I have wanted one for years and I don’t want to go I’ve up until I have exhausted the potential remedies.

The weird thing is the initial pull for the first third is nice, then the wall takes so much effort to pass that staging it is even difficult. It sounds like this may be the main DA fix with this particular gun, so this will be on my practice radar the next couple of range trips.

I will say that the geometry of the 10-shot cylinder is something that takes some getting used to. The slow rotation of the 6-shot guns allows for an almost leisurely DA pull… start the pressure, see the hammer move and cylinder turning, hear the stop click into the notch, Bang! These higher capacity cylinders rotate into position so fast that even with a slow press it’s a blur.

That sucks. The triggers on my 17, 18, and pre 18 are all very good by rimfire revolver standards. Very smooth.

Same, mine are like ball bearings rolling on glass. Shoot, I just realized I left out my two .22WMR Model 48’s from the list above! (K frames can be awfully addictive, and once I was hooked I found that they quickly multiply )

Both of those rimfire 48’s also have a very nice DA trigger stroke. I guess I just got spoiled and expected this new 617 to be like the others. I think it can be, so I’ll keep trying to get it, and myself, to a better place.

Stay safe.