Anyone have pros/cons/info regarding individual vs trust? Considering SBR

[pdsmith505]

the only PITA I found with the trust VS Personal is needing engraving. but I found my guy so right now its far easier. Especially because the only person in my county who would sign the personal forms would ONLY do it for ONE dealer and not personally.

The engraving requirements are the same for either a trust or a personal application. In one case it's the person who is the maker, and thus his actual name being engraved. In the other it's the trust who is the maker, and thus the trust name is engraved.

Granted, engraving "In God We Trust" is more entertaining than "Johnathan Doe," and "JD Trust" is shorter than "Johnathan Doe."

 

[Sinsaba]

One aspect of using a trust that nobody has mentioned yet is time. I purchased a suppressor (Form 4) and it took 11 months to get the tax stamp. I e-filed a form 1 to make a suppressor and it only took 3.5 months.

As a trust, you can e-file and as a person you can't and e-file tax requests are so much faster.

I found a site that seems to give a good explanation of the new rule http://www.nfafa.org/atf41p.cfm

 

[yugorpk]

They're not any faster. Luck of the draw when it gets approved. The examiner gets is on their desk when they get it on their desk. Depends on what the work load is and how many examiners they have on staff. They seem to be using a lot of temps to streamline the process these days. We'll see what happens after July . Approval time could go down or up but it will be across the board.

Ive had form 4's approved in 3 weeks to the point where the form 3 hadnt even been approved yet and me and my dealer had splainin' to do. Ive also had efile form 1's take 8 months.

 

[dogtown tom]

yugorpk They're not any faster. Luck of the draw when it gets approved. The examiner gets is on their desk when they get it on their desk.

No sir, Eforms IS faster. Since the forms are electronically submitted it means a Form 1 doesn't have to go to a data entry clerk before it gets to an examiner. Skipping the data entry clerk means you skip several months of wait time.

I've had customers report several instances of E forms taking less than thirty days on a Form 1. No paper Form 1 has done that in decades.

Ive had form 4's approved in 3 weeks to the point where the form 3 hadnt even been approved yet and me and my dealer had splainin' to do. Ive also had efile form 1's take 8 months.

You had a Form 4 approved BEFORE the Form 3 was approved?
If so, it's not just your dealer that has some explaining, but ATF.
I would love to see copies of those Forms.

 

[yugorpk]

No sir, Eforms IS faster. Since the forms are electronically submitted it means a Form 1 doesn't have to go to a data entry clerk before it gets to an examiner. Skipping the data entry clerk means you skip several months of wait time.

I've had customers report several instances of E forms taking less than thirty days on a Form 1. No paper Form 1 has done that in decades.





You had a Form 4 approved BEFORE the Form 3 was approved?
If so, it's not just your dealer that has some explaining, but ATF.
I would love to see copies of those Forms.

Yep. Sort of. Form 4 came up on the desk of the examiner before the form 3 hit the desk of the examiner. I know this because I got a call and my dealer got a call wanting to know what was going on. The examiner actually tracked down the form 3 and approved it same day as the form 4. Must have been a slow day at the ATF.

I wont buy from a dealer that waits for the form 3 transfer to finalize before he files the form 4. What that means is plenty of dealers out there file them both at the same time. Many dont and will tell you its against the law. Its not. Shocking I know. No law says they have to wait. The ATF would like the dealer to wait just in case something weird like happened that time but its not a black letter law.


As far as form 1's go Ive had them take a few weeks in the paper days ( 5 years ago ) or 9 months once to 4+ months in the efile days. It all depends on their workload and how many examiners they have working. I gave up on trying to attribute anything to anything at the ATF.

 

[dogtown tom]

yugorpk ....I wont buy from a dealer that waits for the form 3 transfer to finalize before he files the form 4. What that means is plenty of dealers out there file them both at the same time.

Horsehockey. Filing a Form 4 before receiving an approved Form 3 requires a written variance from ATF. To my knowledge, only Silencer Shop has such a variance.

As to the legality, have you ever read the Form 3 or 4? If you had you would know that the transferor signs the application under penalty of perjury and declares that the information is true, correct and complete. If the transferor does not actually have possession of the firearm its clearly not his to transfer is it?

By submitting a Form 4 before holding an approved Form 3 the dealer is not in compliance with Federal law. What violation is committed?......PERJURY.

Many dont and will tell you its against the law. Its not. Shocking I know. No law says they have to wait.

You would be wrong.
Again, read the Form 3/4.........note where the transferor signs his declaration.
The National Firearms Act and ATF regulations are pretty darn clear on requirements to transfer NFA firearms.

The ATF would like the dealer to wait just in case something weird like happened that time but its not a black letter law.

Oh heck yeah it's black letter law. Where have you been since 1934?

 

[yugorpk]

I have never bought from and would never buy from a dealer who waited to send a form 4 in until he had the item in hand. They get the serial number and run with it. Happens all the time and plenty of dealers oblige. None of them are in jail. Your interpretation of the law and forms is that the dealer must have physical possession. It does not say that on the form. Judging by how often it happens and that no one seems to actually have an issue with it I'm not buying what you are selling. Suffice to say that my dealer(s) interpretation of that form is different than your interpretation of that form(s).