Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Hillbilly600, Aug 5, 2016.
I wouldn't suggest using Lynn Thompson as a model of anything but one way to sell knives.
Yeah, that's Robin. Mike Sastre does also and I've talked with others that do. You have to dress around it and you really have to train with them under a good teacher if you don't want to take off body parts attached to you. It can be more difficult to use a very large knife safely than a small one. Any defensive use of a knife requires skill and skill is developed through proper training and practice. A small "get off me" knife focuses on simple straightforward techniques for lifesaving as opposed to "knife fighting".
I LOVE my Cold Steel Smatchet. It's a great camper's companion, and is a good compromise all in one tool somewhere between a machete and a hatchet, meaning you could leave those tools at home, or in the truck, or back in camp, and carry the Smachet, while you knock about, in the woods. It is big, it is yuge it is awsome...CCW? Not so much.
Well it seems like I need to think smaller than I was which I guess makes sense as the only fighting knife I had really been around was my grandfather kabare and my dad Bowie so I have been looking around and I find a line of knives be sold as self-defense knives by browning called the black label line does anybody know anything about them
That browning line looks a little gimmicky to me.
And if this is going to be something you intend to live with all the time?
You probably won't find it for $40.00 including a comfortable & durable sheath to carry it.
I'd suggest you start here and look at every brand in every style they sell before just picking something that looks like a prop from Suicide Squad.
If you're wanting a defensive knife you can carry all the time, neck knives like the ARK or Izula or Eskabar work well in that role. Small and light enough to carry all day every day they're an alternative to a folder.
I don't know that much about neck knives or the ones that you called how are they used
In my opinion, Cold Steel can make some decent products for the price, but the way they advertise is sometimes ridiculous. They sometimes try to market pure combat knives for general use and self defense...however, the size and weight of a large knife for combat is usually not a big issue, but for someone wearing normal clothes, the practicality can be challenged.
A larger fixed blade is sometimes not practical for carry, IMO. It may not be legal, it is bulky, heavy, and not always easy to deploy. A small specialized micro-sized fixed blade or specialized folder may be better candidates to fill the gap. In my opinion, this is a gap that is ideally filled where you strike & run away like the wind, or at least put enough distance between yourself and the bad guy where you can then use a firearm or other method with less inherent risk that can come from being in such close proximity. However, there is a ton of different opinions on this topic!!!
I find the waved opening system, designed by Emerson and legally copied by Spyderco and others, to have the advantage in a stress situation in that the moment the knife leaves your pocket it has already locked open...with most other automatic and manual opening mechanisms, you have an additional step to take to open the knife, and pushing a small button, switch, or thumbstud may become a difficult thing to do knowing you are feet away from someone who is going to try to kill you.
There are numerous options for these specialized knives. A tactical pen, which can be used as an impact weapon, may also have benefit.
Here are some examples...among neck knives, the Ka-Bar Last Ditch is not only effective, but only costs 10-20 bucks. First-hand accounts of usage speak to its effectiveness.
All I can say is wow that little thing worked I could see a 3 or4 Inc making someone let loose but there is a lot of people on here smart then me about this stuff
I keep thinking you are thinking of using a knife back-up for your gun.
Because you either don't have a reliable gun?
Or you don't know how to use it?
As for the gun shooting dry?
You carry spare mags, or speed-loaders, learn how to speed reload, and it won't run dry.
Gun going down?
Today's quality guns don't just go down, given reasonable care and good ammo.
Now, in today's world out there, if you need a gun, the chances are probably 100-1 you will be facing a gun.
Not a knife.
And if the gun won't run, you will lose the fight before it ever gets into knife range!!!
The smaller neck knives everyone is telling you about are at least as effective at getting someone to let go of you as a larger big fighting knife.
If you haven't, scroll by up and watch John Shirley's video on his ARK knife post 21.
But there are knives like the Ka-Bar TDI that are designed to be used with the off hand for firearm retention.
I'm tired of trying to convence you you don't need a big fighting knife at a gun fight.
I'd just go with what you think is best if I was you.
A backup to your handgun is to aid in retention and to get someone off of you or to use to cause a lot of damage to an attacker and stop the attack through destruction of the limbs or...exsanguination. The easiest, and therefore most likely to be carried, is a smaller knife designed for retention. Unless the defender is going to invest in training a simple use design is preferable to one that calls for additional training to put to effect. If the defender wants to invest the time/money in training (which I always advocate) then it opens the possibilities for what you can use as a defensive tool. The knife you carry every day all day long is the one you'll have with you and the one you're trained to deploy rapidly and effectively is better than one you're not carrying or you've had no training in. A small knife has to be gripped and controlled, so slender or very stubby handles can be problematic, but plenty of people have been trained to use a Cross or Bic ballpoint pen to get people off of them so you make decisions about what you can retain and train with it.
Cost Steel has a habit of scaling up historical designs. Their Smatchet has a blade length about 3" longer than the WWII Smatchet, which puts it half way between the Smatchet and the WWI Royal Welsh Fusiliers Trench Knife (sword) that inspired it.
Is it is suitable for batoning wood? That is one of the main things I look for in a camp blade.
This is an interesting topic!!!I am by no means an expert on self defense, but this is a topic I like to discuss given no solution is perfect.
Even if it was a case of a "classic knife fight" (which I don't think has happened for quite a while), edged combat IMO is a true nightmare scenario where things have gone terribly wrong. I love knives, and I usually have a defensive folder on me that I am very competent with, but I'd probably risk running away or at least backpedal long enough to draw my carry weapon.
I've only spent a limited amount of time practicing this situation, but the exercises I've done thus far have led to a realization of how fast someone can close in...even past the 21 foot mark. It's led me to believe that a competent assailant that already has a knife or gun drawn will sometimes be able to fire a shot or strike me before I can complete the draw. On the other hand, I can always position myself & draw an Emerson Karambit BEFORE a charging assailant reaches me.
STILL, how useful will that be in real life? Would it increase my chance of survival, or could it decrease it? Based on my own reading, learning, and experimentation, I can think of numerous concerns:
With a firearm I train shooting for center mass, and I can use this target in almost all situations...with a knife, I have to figure out which location is most vulnerable & how to target it, which takes time
Even if an assailant is charging me with a knife, they may have a gun, and now I've just drawn a knife to what turns into a gun fight
Even if I think there is only one assailant, there may be multiple, and I wasted precious seconds drawing the wrong tool
An edge weapon's ability to incapacitate is likely going to be slower than multiple bullets (thinking back to the days when cops were carrying those Widowmaker .38 LRNs, speed counts)
If I am carrying a gun and I draw a defensive folder, now I have to guard my weapon and likely use one of my hands...if I draw a knife and then the bad guy gets my gun, that could be bad.
Where does that leave me at? Wanting to know more.
Certainly, I've worked on increasing my situational awareness in an attempt to identify a potential situation so that I can take action before it reaches an oh-crap point. However, using a firearm in such a close proximity to the bad guy also has its challenges, and it's something I've recently started learning about and hope to learn more and take a class dedicated solely to the topic.
The reverse ice pick is more of a light slashing and angular stabbing. It's more suited for CQ in confined spaces
There are quite a few "grips" the saber grip, scalpel grip, Filipino knife grip and others. The bread and butter grips are the ice pick (not reverse ice pick) and the hammer grip. Both must be mastered for knife fighting. Personally, I prefer the hammer grip which is suitable for slashing or stabbing.
PS: You will get cut when fighting with a knife; it is a given.
You lose flexibility and a bit of range with the hammer grip. Using the natural grip or saber grip is preferable (these are the same hand grip except for the thumb).
The only CS fixed blade I've carried as a St. Foom (Stay The Fun Off Of Me!) knife is their very small Bird & Trout. Carried inside the waistband, in a custom sheath, with just the ring showing, it is very quick, but a very specialized carry knife. One of its advantages is being on the "off" side, I can draw it and keep in my hand while drawing/firing a handgun once distance has been achieved.
The other posters here, especially John Shirley and hso, are giving sound advice. A small knife for escape/gun retention is a workable idea. A huge knife for concealed carry is not practical for 99.99% of the population and is quite likely illegal.
How much do you think the suitability of a certain grip is determined by the design of the knife, versus a specific generalized technique?
For example, with a karambit I have come to like the reverse grip (edge out, spine towards the palm, pointer finger through ring, thumb locked over index finger or resting on the top of the ring.) To draw without requiring a transition, I've carried a waved one in a strong-side pikal position. And while I think there is some loss of distance and some loss of agility versus forward, I like the superb retention that comes from the stronger pointer finger + the ring, and how the grip style combined with the knife style can maintain considerable control even if the thumb is severely injured.
However, let's say I applied this grip style to a larger straight-blade folder (I dunno...let's say a clip point Cold Steel Voyager or a Benchmade Adamas, both with 4.5-ish inches blade) - wouldn't this style result in a loss of a distance advantage that a larger knife like that could afford?
With that said, I'll still gladly run away if I can avoid it!!!
I didn't make that up myself, I saw it on some advertising for the Smatchet
You'll likely NEVER use the .45 for self defense. Which means you'll likely never, ever, ever, ever use the knife for the same.
You'll likely use a knife for non-self-defense purposes ALOT. So it makes sense to carry something that at a bare minimum has some utilitarian value.
I've always been a big fan of fixed-blade knives but ever since 'pocket-clip' knives became the rage way back when I've been a convert. I'm all about Benchmade (which are outstanding), but you don't have to spend those kind of $$ to get a quality folder.
If & when you need to use it in a backup SD role it will be there for you, and since you'll likely be using it pretty much every single day for this task or that, bringing into action will be quick & intuitive.
BTW - I own a cold steel kukri machete, and it's a ton of fun. But like the smachette, it's not something you'd want to carry unless you were out in the boonies and needing to chop wood/brush.
I'm not trying to promote Ka-Bar / TDI, but there is a cool demo of folder vs. fixed blade reaction time / time it takes to deploy - that they do in this demo:
John's got decades of SWAT/LE/Martial Arts experience and his capabilities are remarkable like his knowledge of real world applications.
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