anyone heard of the "slam reload" technique for a Glock?

[Archangel]

Well, I can say that all the people shooting IPSC who shoot Glocks use this technique to save time.

The ones who aren't very good might. If you really want to save time, you don't shoot the gun to slide lock.


One of three things, or more likely a combination, could be happening to cause this technique to work:
1. Because the grip is angled, slamming the mag home causes the whole gun to move forward (toward the muzzle) as well as up. The slide, due to inertia, wants to stay to the rear. The frame moves forward in relation to the slide, which causes the slide stop to disengage the same as if you pulled the slide back. (The Glock's steeper grip angle and lightweight frame would explain why this seems more common in Glocks.)
2. If there is vertical play between the slide and frame, slamming in the mag causes the frame to move up in relation to the slide and slide stop. As the frame hits the slide, the slide rebounds and moves up in relation to the frame, but the lighter slide stop does not rebound, and drops out of engagement.
3. Similar to 2, but instead the top round in the mag pushes the slide up away from the frame farther or faster than the (likely only partially engaged) slide stop can follow.

A weak magazine spring or worn follower can contribute by only partially engaging the slide stop.

Any of these could eventually cause the slide stop and / or the engagement notch in the slide to wear and round off to the point that the slide no longer locks back on an empty mag. (but no faster than manually thumbing the slide stop to release the slide causes the same wear.)


In any case, the "slam reload" is essentially an induced malfunction, and should not be relied on as a technique. If you want speed, seat the mag and thumb the slide release as you re-aquire your weak hand grip and extend back into your firing stance. If you want consistency of technique, seat the mag and rack the slide the same as you would a tap-rack.

 

[Boats]

I do love it when a "bug" is recast as a "feature." If I had a pistol that RTB when I slapped in a magazine, I'd get it fixed or dump it onto the secondary market.

This "feature" and I am not bashing Glocks here because I have seen it in some metal pistols too, is indicative of a slide stop incapable of keeping adequate spring tension to hold open the slide, or as indicated earlier, a weak magazine or worn follower, the last of which is far more common with polymer followers than metal ones. I think that because this "feature" can be quite random, that it is dangerous to rely on it if expecting it to happen, and even more dangerous if it happens when it is unexpected, especially if one were in a gun fight. One may trick one's self into thinking a spontaneous RTB was indicative of a malf and waste valuable time, and a live round in all likelihood, trying to "correct" the problem.

I guess I would scratch fixing it if the "feature" was common or recurring in one of my pistols. I wouldn't keep a gun like that around.

 

[Kilroy]

Personally, I do not consider this a "feature". I consider it a malfunction.

Quite right. I have been able to watch a wide variety of shooters do this, some intended, some not. It takes place because the shooter puts the magazine partially into the magazine well, then.......the windup......here comes the pitch......and that free hand now slams into the bottom of the magazine with a portion of the hand striking the frame, causing it to move and thus releasing the slide. Most of the time this results in a loaded pistol, except when it does not.

It smacks...pardon the pun...of poor gun handling.

 

[AJAX22]

I agree, guns are not supposed to do that.

I had a poorly fitted mag in my 1911 one time that I had to set in place by whacking it on my knee, once in a while it would trip the release on its own, it was supprising and unwanted when it occured. I've since fixed the mag, but I suspect that you could get most guns to malfunction in this way with a sharp enough blow.

 

[gezzer]

I think it is a malfunction. I was trained to sling shot the slide from a lock back. In fact I like to tactical reload before lock back. Nice to have a full mag durring breaks in the action that way the bad guy cant count rounds.(as if that makes a difference in this day and age)

 

[evan price]

Saw this on a Smith I rented at the range once. I remember it had a grip safety.. I think it was a Sigma but don't remember all too well. I was showing a newbie how to shoot and it surprised me when it happened. Of course a range gun gets all the abuse. Seen it on an olod first gen low serial G17 a friend has. Bought it in 1988 or so I recall and it has fired about 1000 round every month since then.

 

[Kentak]

Boats, you said

This "feature" and I am not bashing Glocks here because I have seen it in some metal pistols too, is indicative of a slide stop incapable of keeping adequate spring tension to hold open the slide, or as indicated earlier, a weak magazine or worn follower, the last of which is far more common with polymer followers than metal ones.

With all due respect, you have this wrong. The slide stop spring always works to pull the stop lever downward, toward release. It must do that in order to prevent a slide lock-back until the magazine follower actually pushes the lock lever upward to engage the notch in the slide. It's the notch in the slide that holds the lever in engagement, not the spring, which is working to release it. When you pull back on the slide, the lever comes out of the notch and the lever's spring pulls it back down to it's normal firing position so that the slide will return to battery.

A "weak magazine or worn follower" has nothing to do with the slam-release we are talking about here. A weak mag spring or worn follower might cause a failure to engage the slide stop lever into the slide notch, which would cause a failure to hold open after the last round, but that is not what is being discussed here.

Once I understood the dynamics of a slam-release, I realized it wasn't a "defect," nor a "feature," just a result of applying an excessive force to the mag reload.

K

 

[Boats]

Reviewing what I wrote, you're generally right. I musn't have had enough caffiene yesterday. I also find it easy to confuse myself about the operating circumstances of other pistols when I tend to picture the 1911A1, which uses the plunger system instead of some wire spring.

 

[Archangel]

A "weak magazine or worn follower" has nothing to do with the slam-release we are talking about here. A weak mag spring or worn follower might cause a failure to engage the slide stop lever into the slide notch, which would cause a failure to hold open after the last round, but that is not what is being discussed here.

A weak mag spring or worn follower could cause the slide stop to only partially engage, enough so that it does hold the slide back, but reqires less movement to release it. Such a condition wold make the slam reload more likely to drop the slide.

 

[drbironhead]

i would never slam a hand gun its not the proper way to relode the only time i slamed reloded was a m-16 and we were taught to do it like that when u combat relode

 

[Dolomite]

As a Safety Officer, I see this (now what shall I call it? Hmm…) phenomenon quite frequently during IDPA matches (where “slide lock” or “emergency” reloads are very common).

I’ve seen this occur with SIG shooters too, but it happens mostly with Glockers (notice I’m blaming the user and not the gun).

When you’re SOing, you get to see –up close and personal – the shooting habits of your friends as they develop. For the guy or gal that’s shooting 10K+ rounds per year out of their Glock – this really isn’t a problem. Shoot – some even take a stone or a file to the slide release and round off the edge of the lever at the point it contacts the slide cut-out.

For the folks that may not be as intimately familiar with their gun – fer example; if I see a shooter pointing their slide-locked, empty, gun at a target and mashing down on the trigger harder and harder wondering why it’s not going off (followed by them turning the gun slightly sideways, gawking at it, and then saying, “OHCRAP!”) – yes, I couldn’t agree more, this is a very dangerous phenomenon to explore. If someone is "teaching" it to novice shooters - they're not doing them any favors.

They’re easy to spot too (that is, the ones that should have their slide release lever replaced), because you’ll see them ram the reload mag home hard at the right angle, and then when that slide doesn’t go forward, the aforementioned gawking reoccurs but in a somewhat lesser degree.

My Glocks do this sometimes, but I’ve learned early on that a proper reload is one that allows you to get back on target the quickest, and this method ain’t it. In addition, you just cannot count on it – so with every reload – emergency or speed – my thumb is hitting that release lever, just out of habit.

 

[mikeb3185]

went to the range yesterday and tried it(glock 19-9mm), both with slamming in the magazine and seating the magazine then slamming it. both resulted in chambering a round. not sure if it is a "feature" or a "defect" so i will not be training to do it that way

edit:
also the gun is new, only about 800rds

 

[Kentak]

A weak mag spring or worn follower could cause the slide stop to only partially engage, enough so that it does hold the slide back, but reqires less movement to release it. Such a condition wold make the slam reload more likely to drop the slide.

I think you're grasping at straws. Have you ever seen a "partial engagement" of a slide lock? In all my years of reading about guns, I can't recall a reference to such a thing.

I can't imagine a functioning magazine with a spring so weak that it can't activate the slide lock. Since this thread was about Glocks, I can only say that on my Glocks, it takes *very little* upward force on the lever to raise it. The upward force on the follower by the mag spring is *much* greater. Any mag spring that is so weak that it couldn't push a Glock slide lock lever upward would certainly have last rounds feeding problems.

As for a worn follower causing the problem, never seen it, don't believe it. These pictures show the slide lock lever in the normal lock position (top) and with the slide removed and an empty mag inserted (bottom). Notice how much higher the lock lever is (at least 2 mm). That's how much wear the lock projection on a follower could tolerate and still activate the stop. But, if you examine the mechanics of the way the follower engages the lock lever, no way could it ever wear more than a tiny fraction of a millimeter.

K

 

[crofrog]

I can't imagine a functioning magazine with a spring so weak that it can't activate the slide lock. Since this thread was about Glocks, I can only say that on my Glocks, it takes *very little* upward force on the lever to raise it. The upward force on the follower by the mag spring is *much* greater. Any mag spring that is so weak that it couldn't push a Glock slide lock lever upward would certainly have last rounds feeding problems.

The mag spring being weak could make it take to long to get fully up before the slide starts returning forward.

As for a worn follower causing the problem, never seen it, don't believe it.

Well it can and does.

These pictures show the slide lock lever in the normal lock position (top) and with the slide removed and an empty mag inserted (bottom). Notice how much higher the lock lever is (at least 2 mm). That's how much wear the lock projection on a follower could tolerate and still activate the stop. But, if you examine the mechanics of the way the follower engages the lock lever, no way could it ever wear more than a tiny fraction of a millimeter.

Yes, however if it doesn't go all the way up it is only "partially" engaged and the amount of force required to completly dengage it will be less.

 

[Jeff22]

slide going forward by itself -- out-of-battery reload

You can do this with almost any automatic pistol if you slam the magazine in hard enough.

I have talked to two different people who claimed that they were "taught" this as an optional reloading method at a Glock armorer class. (I last got recertified as a Glock armorer in about 1995 and this issue wasn't addressed that I remember). (I suspect they misunderstood something)

Now, it's possible that somebody in an armorer or instructor training class actually advocated this as a way to save time during an out-of-battery reload. It is more likely that somebody misunderstood something, or just invented it by themselves. I have seen lots of "instructors" make stuff up when confronted with a question that they didn't know the answer to.

There are lots of people who went to some kind of "instructor" class one time, never attended another shooting skills class, never attended any instructor updates, don't shoot regularly in practice, don't shoot in IPSC or IDPA, and probably didn't understand 70% of the information presented to them in the "instructor" class who still go around spouting misinformation to their students.

I see it all the time as an LE instructor, and it drives me crazy.

I don't understand how somebody who managed to go through a 40 hour instructor training class WITHOUT TAKING ANY NOTES can feel qualified to teach somebody else basic gunhandling and shooting skills, particularly when they don't keep their own skills up.

But that's just me . . .

So yes, in answer to the original question, if you slam reload a magazine in most auto pistols, the slide stop/slide catch will disengage by itself and the slide will go forward. Usually, it will chamber a round off the top of the magazine as it goes forward. Sometimes the slide velocity is impeded enough that it causes a malfunction, and if the feed lips on the magazaine are spread a little bit from heavy use, that top round can pop right out and jam the weapon as well.

But that is NOT a preferred technique . . .:banghead: