How Concealed?

[HarcyPervin]

I think I have answered this question already, but my roommate and I were just talking about this:

He works as a greeter at a local sporting goods store and part of his job entails "checking-in" merchandise being returned to the store, which includes guns coming in for service. A customer came in who was carrying (MN is a concealed carry state). He was carrying IWB with jeans and a tucked-in shirt, clearly exposing his sidearm. My roommate asked the customer if he was bringing in the gun for service, with the intent of "tagging" it. He replied that he was a licensed concealed carrier. My roommate politely informed him that his gun was not concealed and asked him to do so while in the store. The customer begrudgingly agreed, but was not happy about having to un-tuck and re-tuck his shirt to cover his gun.

I'm wondering if anyone else who carries concealed has run into this issue, and how they would react in a similar situation as both the carrier and in my roommate's position?

As a nice coincidence, an on-duty cop came in shortly after and was Open-Carrying. They struck up a conversation on the matter and the officer told my roommate he was in the right and in fact he could have arrested the man for carrying a gun in that fashion.

I can see a wardrobe mishap that would expose a concealed gun being a no-no, but half-concealing a gun seems like flirting with trouble.

Opinions?

 

[psyopspec]

I'm not a huge OCer, though I've done it in the past going to/from the range or while hiking. However, I don't have any issue with those that do so in a manner that's legal and safe.

What would I have done?

"Hey is that a ____ [type of gun]? How's it shoot?" And I would have left it at that.

 

[WilleRupert]

In mn it's a carry permit. No concealment required. If a representative of a business says no guns or that they have to be concealed, you have to obey or take your biz elsewhere. Arrested? Um, no. If someone sees your piece and freaks out and calls the cops, you could get a disturbing the peace and a lot of hassle, but not arrested (unless you're one of those I know my rights and you can't arrest me yahoos).

 

[MyGreenGuns]

He was carrying IWB with jeans and a tucked-in shirt, clearly exposing his sidearm.

That is considered Open carry not concealed carry.

Moot issue here(WA), Its legal.

 

[MedWheeler]

So, why did your roommate (the store employee) ask him to conceal the gun? Business policy, or (mis)interpretation of the law or parameters of the individual's carry license?

 

[jimbo555]

Thats what I like about living in a free state,Its not against the law to oc in Georgia with a Gwl.

 

[Averageman]

Unless it is a store policy I would think your roomate is out of line.

 

[Sam1911]

My roommate politely informed him that his gun was not concealed and asked him to do so while in the store.

Was your roommate enforcing a legitimate store policy or making it up as he went along? Does his employer have an official stance prohibiting OC? Is it for that store, or for the whole company?

If he had a MN permit, then he was perfectly legal to OC or CC as he chose.

As a nice coincidence, an on-duty cop came in shortly after and was Open-Carrying. They struck up a conversation on the matter and the officer told my roommate he was in the right and in fact he could have arrested the man for carrying a gun in that fashion.

Awww, a local cop who doesn't know the state's carry laws [irony]how very UNUSUAL![/irony]

I'm wondering if anyone else who carries concealed has run into this issue,

Nope.

...and how they would react in a similar situation as both the carrier...

Request clarification about this "rule" then request to speak to the manager, and then, if the manager does confirm an Anti-OC policy, comply as I leave, letting him know with great politeness that he's just lost his store a customer as I won't be back. Follow up with a letter to corporate HQ (or the store owner) explaining the situation and my reasons for ceasing to do business with his establishment.

In the meantime, if the friendly officer was to stop by and offer his opinion, officially request that he produce the code he believes I'm violating. Then perhaps enjoy a soda and a hotdog as he sifts through his book...

... and in my roommate's position?

Keep my mouth shut unless charged with enforcing a specific policy about that issue.

I can see a wardrobe mishap that would expose a concealed gun being a no-no, but half-concealing a gun seems like flirting with trouble.

Concealed = legal. Open carry = legal. Semi-concealed? RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Exactly what trouble is there that's he's supposedly "flirting with?"

 

[conw]

I always keep a little extra attention directed at someone with a gun, whether at the range, concealed, OC, or police for that matter. If I know that a person has a gun, they merit a little bit more attention being paid, and a mental note.

But I don't see it as an occasion to speak to someone under any circumstance (unless I am getting muzzled by the gun or similar), especially not in that way. Even if that was the store policy I'd leave that up to someone else. Not so much because of propriety or being a supporter of 2A rights, but for practical reasons - it's just not a good idea to assume that a comment about someone else's gun (or anything for that matter) will be well received, or to assume that someone is a "good guy" because he or she has a gun, concealed or open, or a badge for that matter.

I just don't have the inclination to get caught up in a situation like that when it's entirely avoidable, no matter how remote the actual risk.

 

[kcshooter]

If your friend wasn't advising to CC instead of OC based on store policy or law, he was out of line and it wasn't his place to say anything about it in the first place.

 

[HarcyPervin]

So, why did your roommate (the store employee) ask him to conceal the gun? Business policy, or (mis)interpretation of the law or parameters of the individual's carry license?

He's not a gun guy at all, but he was instructed that any gun coming in the store for service had to be tagged. (mis)interpretation of the law may be the issue here.

Awww, a local cop who doesn't know the state's carry laws [irony]how very UNUSUAL![/irony]

No surprise or argument here.

Keep my mouth shut unless charged with enforcing a specific policy about that issue.

I think he, like I, was under the impression that concealed carry was the norm. The conversation started when he asked to tag the gun for service. I'm not aware of the store policy regarding guns, concealed, open, or otherwise.

But I don't see it as an occasion to speak to someone under any circumstance (unless I am getting muzzled by the gun or similar), especially not in that way. Even if that was the store policy I'd leave that up to someone else. Not so much because of propriety or being a supporter of 2A rights, but for practical reasons - it's just not a good idea to assume that a comment about someone else's gun (or anything for that matter) will be well received, or to assume that someone is a "good guy" because he or she has a gun, concealed or open, or a badge for that matter.

His job is to start that conversation, when someone walks in the store with merchandise that they sell, he is supposed to tag it to avoid any confusion. It is a large store, so he is required to not only tag merchandise, but also to point customers in the direction they should go to get service.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Concealed = legal. Open carry = legal. Semi-concealed? RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Exactly what trouble is there that's he's supposedly "flirting with?"

Again, I was under the assumption that "concealed carry" as it is referred to and practiced around here is exactly that. Semi-concealed or open isn't a big deal when open carry is allowed, but can be a much bigger issue where it concealed only. My roommate doesn't know the rules on carrying, but OC is exceedingly rare for non-law enforcement, especially when you're in Minnetonka.

 

[holdencm9]

In mn it's a carry permit. No concealment required.

From MN here too, and this is what I thought. I always carry concealed but the option to open carry is sort of a safeguard against having an issue like, oh say, my jacket is concealing my gun and it turns out the weather forecast was wrong and it is really warm.

Also interested in the store he works at (understand you probably can't/won't share) but at Gander Mountain in Eden Prairie they have a sign that says all guns must be cased, but then specifically makes an exception for those who are carrying in accordance with MN law, but I can't remember if their sign specifies "concealed." I guess it is within their rights to allow concealed carry, but not open carry (as it might freak out some of their customer base).

 

[HarcyPervin]

Also interested in the store he works at (understand you probably can't/won't share) but at Gander Mountain in Eden Prairie they have a sign that says all guns must be cased, but then specifically makes an exception for those who are carrying in accordance with MN law, but I can't remember if their sign specifies "concealed." I guess it is within their rights to allow concealed carry, but not open carry (as it might freak out some of their customer base).

I'd rather not say, as it was not my experience. The store does not have anything posted. I will re-state, though, my roommate did not argue the legallities with the customer and was very polite with him. He did not know that open carry was legal, and I'll admit that I did not either. Neither of us carry, and at this point in my life, and with my daily routine, I see no need to do so. I'm not saying he was right in asking the guy to conceal his gun, but I will say that he did what he was supposed to do, and acted much more professionally than the customer. (He ripped his shirt as he untucked it as was clearly annoyed [I'm not saying he didn't have the right to be])

 

[Ruezim]

All three were in the right. In MN with a CC permit you can OC or CC. When you walk into a store or public building they can ask you not to carry in the building. If you proceed to carry in the building after being asked not to you are then in violation of the law and can be arrested. So legally the customer could OC into the store, but once he was asked to conceal he must agree or leave. Your friend could also have asked him to put it in a case. That all depends on company policy. He should check with his manager so he knows what Gander wants him to do from now on.

 

[HarcyPervin]

He should check with his manager so he knows what [not Gander] wants him to do from now on.

That is exactly what I told him.