Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Older man with seven children confronts angry, man with a history of a violent outbursts on a trail and shoots him claiming self-defense. The man is found guilty of second-degree murder and sent to prison for ten years.
Anyone see the defensive shooting on Dateline tonight?
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Jacka L Ope
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Comes on at 8:00 p.m. here.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15174955/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/
Yeah, I like how they were making a big deal about him using a 10mm with hollow points
. God forbid someone uses a self defense round for self defense. Apparently we should all use .22's for self defense. One of the jurors said she was very disturbed by the ammunition he had used. The defense should have brought in a box of FMJ and a box of hollow points so the jurors could read the purposes on the side of the box.
. God forbid someone uses a self defense round for self defense. Apparently we should all use .22's for self defense. One of the jurors said she was very disturbed by the ammunition he had used. The defense should have brought in a box of FMJ and a box of hollow points so the jurors could read the purposes on the side of the box.Unbelievable...Made such a point about the hollow points...And then prosecution said character was not an issue. It looks like the law changing after the appeal was entered may save his ass. Moto is stay armed but use bullets that won't hurt too much, and don't shoot till they have you're beating heart in their hands. Something else to think about boys...God forbid any of us have to use deadly force in our life times but you can bet that anything and everything that we have written on these forums can and will be used against you. :banghead:
Sylvan-Forge
Member
"Tragedy" huh?
Tragedy of justice, more like.
Brainwashed jurors. Evidently they did no research,
nor had any evidence of substance.
But hey, that's ok, they "felt".
What a crock of steaming manure.
Hope he has better luck in the appeals.
Tragedy of justice, more like.
Brainwashed jurors. Evidently they did no research,
nor had any evidence of substance.
But hey, that's ok, they "felt".
What a crock of steaming manure.
Hope he has better luck in the appeals.
I didn't watch Dateline, but it sounds like the Fish case?
Is that what it was?
ETA: hmmmm..... Fish didn't have kids with him.... so I guess not, but there are a lot of similarities (10mm JHP, trail, etc.)
ETA again: ahh... it is Fish, and the kids weren't there. Gotcha.
Is that what it was?
ETA: hmmmm..... Fish didn't have kids with him.... so I guess not, but there are a lot of similarities (10mm JHP, trail, etc.)
ETA again: ahh... it is Fish, and the kids weren't there. Gotcha.
Another thing...Think about the sentence,10 years with no chance of parole for a 57 year old retired school teacher with not a blip on his record. How many times do we read of someone killed or badly assaulted by some piece of human s*** that has just gotten out of jail with a huge rap sheet with a dozen short sentences. I am so sick of these liberal idiots who are giving away this country.
scurtis_34471
Member
Crap like this makes me glad I live in Florida, because the person who kicks down my door or attackes my family is going to be on the receiving end of the nastiest legal ammo I can find to put in my gun.
SoCalShooter
Member
I use hollow points does that mean if I shoot someone in self defence it was premeditated?
General Geoff
Member
The defense attorney had NO IDEA what he was doing, apparently.
If I was the defense attorney, when given the chance to cross-reference (or reply, whatever) to the hollowpoint bullet, I'd call one of the residing court officers to the stand, and ask them what kind of bullets were in his duty weapon at the moment; and if he'd care to eject a round and show us.
owned.
If I was the defense attorney, when given the chance to cross-reference (or reply, whatever) to the hollowpoint bullet, I'd call one of the residing court officers to the stand, and ask them what kind of bullets were in his duty weapon at the moment; and if he'd care to eject a round and show us.
owned.
alucard0822
Member
the old carried by six vs tried by twelve. Nice position they put us in if we have to protect ourselves and our family. Anyone with a pulse should see that if you are defending your family from an attack it shouldn't matter if you use a pointy stick, or a bazooka.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Yes, I saw it and could not believe it. I also got a sense from the judge that the verdict was wrong. I already knew the outcome though when Dateline showed the pistol and said it was a 10mm. I thought oh boy.... they are gonna have a field day on this one.
The one thing that always been a huge concern about jurors is group mentality. With any group of jurors, your going to have one or two that basically are dictating the verdict.
Another problem is people often take another person's word as long as he has a degree or title. I been around MDs all my life (dad was a cardiologist) and one of his friends once told me something very important. "A degree these days only shows you can regurgiate information that you been forced-fed. The higher degree you have has more to do with economic status than actual intelligence."
That guy had a PHD and a MD.
Another problem is people often take another person's word as long as he has a degree or title. I been around MDs all my life (dad was a cardiologist) and one of his friends once told me something very important. "A degree these days only shows you can regurgiate information that you been forced-fed. The higher degree you have has more to do with economic status than actual intelligence."
That guy had a PHD and a MD.
The Ecomonist, yes, it was the "Fish" case, in Arizona.
This case also just shows if you have to shoot some thug, precisely why you must NEVER give in to the desire to "explain" what happened, to the cops. Mr. Fish called the police himself and did not even bother to ask for an attorney. He sat with the detectives for hours and talked, and talked, and talked.... because he "knew" he had acted in self defense. But, his interview with the detectives was all later used in Court by the Prosecutor to destroy him.
As for "hollow points," etc., just shoot through-and-through some bad guy with your FMJ ammo and hit an innocent bystander and watch what happens to you. The Prosecutor also told the ignorant jury members that Mr. Fish's Kimber 10MM "gun" was far too powerful, even more powerful than police officers carry. Therefore Mr. Fish obviously wanted to kill a person, instead of using a less powerful cartridge and "gun," which would only wound a person. Uh huh.
The defense attorney did not even call a firearms expert in to rebutt that nonsense and testify that many police departs carry 10MM semi-autos, and a few agencies use .44 Magnums, etc., etc. Not one firearms expert was called to testify that virtually EVERY police and Sheriff's Dept. in the U.S. use hollow points because they are "safer."
Apparently, not one person on the jury had any practical knowledge of firearms and ballistics, whatsoever.
But to me, the most imporant thing about this "trial" was to reinforce the advice we so often hear, if you're in a self defense shooting, no matter how natural it is to want to explain what happened, DO NOT TALK WITH THE POLICE WITHOUT YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L.W.
This case also just shows if you have to shoot some thug, precisely why you must NEVER give in to the desire to "explain" what happened, to the cops. Mr. Fish called the police himself and did not even bother to ask for an attorney. He sat with the detectives for hours and talked, and talked, and talked.... because he "knew" he had acted in self defense. But, his interview with the detectives was all later used in Court by the Prosecutor to destroy him.
As for "hollow points," etc., just shoot through-and-through some bad guy with your FMJ ammo and hit an innocent bystander and watch what happens to you. The Prosecutor also told the ignorant jury members that Mr. Fish's Kimber 10MM "gun" was far too powerful, even more powerful than police officers carry. Therefore Mr. Fish obviously wanted to kill a person, instead of using a less powerful cartridge and "gun," which would only wound a person. Uh huh.
The defense attorney did not even call a firearms expert in to rebutt that nonsense and testify that many police departs carry 10MM semi-autos, and a few agencies use .44 Magnums, etc., etc. Not one firearms expert was called to testify that virtually EVERY police and Sheriff's Dept. in the U.S. use hollow points because they are "safer."
Apparently, not one person on the jury had any practical knowledge of firearms and ballistics, whatsoever.
But to me, the most imporant thing about this "trial" was to reinforce the advice we so often hear, if you're in a self defense shooting, no matter how natural it is to want to explain what happened, DO NOT TALK WITH THE POLICE WITHOUT YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L.W.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
A Letter to the Sheriff
It would seem to be prudent, if one has a CCW -- or even a home defense weapon, to write a letter to one's sheriff asking what they recommend for self defense, and what they themselves, use.
File their response.
After an incident, should the question of "why you used that ammo" for self defense, the answer becomes, "it was recommended by the police. Here's a copy of their letter to me."
Defense attorney should be scheduled for manicure with a brick.
It would seem to be prudent, if one has a CCW -- or even a home defense weapon, to write a letter to one's sheriff asking what they recommend for self defense, and what they themselves, use.
File their response.
After an incident, should the question of "why you used that ammo" for self defense, the answer becomes, "it was recommended by the police. Here's a copy of their letter to me."
Defense attorney should be scheduled for manicure with a brick.
+1 to ArfinGreebly's response, though I believe that class of round should be sufficient. I like the idea of a lawyer laying down two boxes of ammo - one FMJ 'target ammo' and one HP 'defense ammo'. As well as asking a couple police officers what they carry in their guns. (Best double check that first, though).
plexreticle
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Did this guy use a public defender? Looks like he needs a better lawyer if it isn't too late.
Don't know about that case, and I don't intend to hi-jack, but the Federal Public Defenders in my area, and in many federal courts, are among the best defense lawyers in town. You can spend all the money you want, but those guys and gals are usually the best around.
The posted story sounds like a state court case, and the quality of their public defenders vary, but I just wanted to give props to the federal defenders that I often see doing a great job.
Many poor defendants in federal court get a free federal public defender, and then grandma or mama mortgages the house to hire bubba a private lawyer who is not nearly as good as the free lawyer Bubba just gave away. I can't tell you how many times I have seen such laughable and sad situations.
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