Apartment Defense: Specific Loads

[Kylaen]

At some point, I'm going to be purchasing a self defense snubby. Going to be either a .38 or .357, depending on which I can shoot better and easier (probably the .38, but you never know). If I go .38, I know I'll choose the FBI load, unless there's something better out there nowadays. In .357 I have no idea what load to carry. These modular apartments only have walls and doors a few inches thick, so JHP or LSWCHP naturally.

Due to my disability, I'm not ambidextrous. My right hand is lacking fine motor control, which is why I'm pulling away from a semi. Otherwise I'd carry a no frills government length 1911. I want something solid I can shoot one handed. Preferably steel construction. I don't need fancy frills like a laser pointer. Although I would like glow sights. My main concerns at this point are barrel length and specific load. I want six rounds, just in case. Five just feels a little uneasy. My old man keeps talking about a .22 derringer...only two rounds of .22 for a home invasion, is he crazy?

Additional thoughts: my little place has a flimsy lock and a deadbolt. I felt secure with it at first, but my little brother says that they aren't as strong as they seem. I wanted to look into buying and putting in a new one, or at least an additional one. And I was looking at these:http://www.medeco.com/en/site/medeco/products/

Are they any good; this company, their products?

 

[oneounceload]

Firing a full house 357 indoors and you will know it - the concussive noise and flash can easily make you deaf and blind for a few moments - it will be worse from a snub.
I'd prefer a 4-6" barrel K frame or larger; others will chime in about Rugers. If carry is in the future, get a smaller one for that
JMO, YMMV

Of course, since you mentioned a 1911, you could opt for a revolver using the 45ACP, less flash and hurtful noise

 

[JTQ]

Firing a full house 357 indoors and you will know it - the concussive noise and flash can easily make you deaf and blind for a few moments - it will be worse from a snub.

and

...since you mentioned a 1911, you could opt for a revolver using the 45ACP, less flash and hurtful noise

Pretty much what I was going to say.

 

[JTQ]

I want six rounds, just in case. Five just feels a little uneasy.

If you need a reload, the fastest revolver reload is probably .45 ACP in moon clips. Another advantage to a .45 ACP revolver.

 

[Coyote3855]

.45 ACP revolver would be a good choice, and moon clips make for a fast reload if needed. Your apartment door provides very little security and can be breached in seconds. That's a good argument for having a home defense firearm you can easily carry with you.

Yes, he's ill-informed to suggest a two round handgun in a weak caliber. I'm comfortable in my area with a .38 special S&W with a four inch barrel, but I also carry a .380 in my pocket all the time. The .38 follows me around the house, but I always have the .380.

 

[oneounceload]

If you still stay with the 38/357, S&W makes a large frame (N) that hold 7 or even 8 - that's 1911 capacity and with a speed loader, you'd be GTG for most things.

 

[pblanc]

If you are using it for home defense and carry is not an issue I would go with a 4" barrel myself. The Ruger GP100 is very solid and dependable.

I would probably choose the Speer Gold Dot 125 grain 38 special +P, unless you choose a short barrel revolver, then the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain 38 special +P. They have excellent ballistics and seem to have a very solid reputation.

I would stay away from .357 Magnum for shooting indoors, or shooting in low light conditions for the reasons already mentioned.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

Indoors I use 38 special wadcutters. A devastating bullet on flesh at close indoor ranges.

 

[Telekinesis]

Why do you want a snubby? They are typically one of the most difficult guns to shoot accurately and have more recoil (especially if you opt for a .357 mag). Also note that a .357 mag revolver can shoot .38 specials just fine.

If you are predominately a lefty, most revolvers will be difficult to reload as the cylinder latch is typically set up for a righty (catch at the thumb of the right hand, cylinder opens to the left of the gun, etc)

I'd personally find a semi that is set up for ambidextrous use (maybe a S&W M&P9?). If youre just using it for home defense, concealability shouldnt be an issue. That'll give you more ammo between reloads, and a platform that is easy to use as a lefty (no right hand only safety,mag release, or slide release). There are ways to do reloads/malfunction clearances one handed and that should be part of anyone's gun handling skills so you shouldn't be too far behind there.

And any ammo that you want to use for defense is going to cut right through those apartment walls. I'd be surprised if it didn't go through several. Know what's beyond your target (even through walls).

 

[Kylaen]

Oh ****, I didn't realize that the revolvers were designed for right handers. Yeah, I'm gonna need something ambidextrous, that I can train to reload and shoot with one hand. Maybe I should look into a 1911 (assuming I can shoot the .45 just fine; I've only ever shot rifles.

 

[JTQ]

I'm a 1911 guy, don't own any polymer guns, and don't particularly care for Glocks, but a high capacity 9mm seems like it may be a better choice.

If you have terrible hand strength, you could get somebody to load it up for you and put it aside until needed. You'd then have 15+ shots before you'd need to reload. If you ran out, the slide would lock back, and all you'd need to do is insert the mag and hit the slide release.

Nothing has happened to my hand strength yet, but as I get older I've thought about these issues and with weak hands I'd much rather have a large capacity auto with a relatively light trigger, than a revolver with a 12 lb(ish) trigger.

 

[Kylaen]

With my good hand, I'm relatively strong. That shouldn't be an issue.

 

[JTQ]

How's your weak hand for reloading. You do a lot less reloading with a gun that carries 15+ rounds than one that carries 6-8.

Forum member DPris discussed, on another forum, his move to the S&W M&P for age and health reasons. You could probably PM him if you'd like his input. I think that type of gun makes a lot of sense to me as I envision my changing needs over the next few years.

 

[Kylaen]

Sure. I've looked into many guns. I just haven't shot any handguns yet. I don't know what calibers I can handle yet.

 

[mdauben]

At some point, I'm going to be purchasing a self defense snubby.

The only real advantage of a snubby is concealment, and most people find them harder to shoot well. If you are just looking for a home/apartment defence handgun, you are better off with a full size revolver with at least a 4 inch barrel. A Ruger Security Six or GP100, a S&W K frame, or even a Taurus revolver is price is an issue.

Additional thoughts: my little place has a flimsy lock and a deadbolt.

Generally the weak point of the door is not the lock itself, but the way it is anchored to the door and frame. If your apartment owner will allow you to do the minor modifications to the appartment, I'd look into these two items.


This will reinfoce the area around the deadbolt and door knob, making it harder to break them out of the door.


THis should use screws long enough to screw into the actual studs in the wall, not just the much flimsier door frame. Again, this makes it harder to just break to door down.

These items won't keep a determined person from breaking it, but they will at least slow them down.

 

[Kylaen]

Ok. What are these products, how much do they cost, and can I buy them online?

 

[Old Fuff]

Most apartment walls are not bullet resistant, let alone bullet proof. Also windows may or may not be double-pane glass.

If you shoot and the bullet escapes the confines of your apartment you can - and probably will - be held responsible for any damage or injury it causes, good intentions not withstanding.

Since the longest likely distance is likely to be short you do not want a cartridge/load/bullet combination that can easily go through a wall, not to mention a window.

Of the previous suggestions the best one would be a .38 Special/Mid-Range round, loaded with a 148 Gr. full-wadcutter bullet and a muzzle velocity of about 600 FPS. If you must choose a pistol consider one in .380 ACP. But even these could penetrate some walls. A discussion with a knowledgeable carpenter would not be a bad move.

 

[suemarkp]

I'm a lefty. I find it interesting that some things seem to work better for lefty's on many guns (slide release) but some things are terrible (many decockers and left side only safeties). If you go with a 1911, you need one with an ambidextrous safety. I gave mine away because it didn't have that and I couldn't work the safety unless I just kept it off.

I'd go handle some things in the store and see what you can do. If you get a S&W or Taurus revolver, you push forward on the cylinder release. You can do that with your left index finger. A Colt or Ruger you have to pull towards you which may be tougher. But try grabbing from the top and use your thumb or other ways to make your left hand work. I like to transfer a revolver to my right hand (after opening the cylinder) to hold it while reloading the ammo with the left. The full moon clip guns can be quicker to reload if you chamfer the cylinders. I had a S&W 625 with full moon clips and it wasn't super fast to load because one cartridge mouth was always getting stuck in the cylinder face.

Another issue could be hand strength. You need to be able to rack the slide should you have a jam. Some of the heavier guns with longer barrels are easier to rack (e.g. 45 ACP w/5" barrel). Even easier if you put a target spring in them and use lighter slower bullets (e.g. a target 45 using 185gr semi wadcutters). You can also push the muzzle against something to rack it, but its tricky because the recoil guide rod is under the barrel. So you can only use a short lip just above the barrel if you're pressing against it. I saw a video of a guy with only one hand who was in a wheel chair and he could rack the slide by turning his hand upside down and pressing the top of the slide into his leg and pushing to rack it. Clearing a jam could still be a problem though.

I'd really consider the revolver if you have only one good hand. You can mix heavy or light loads, and they don't care about bullet shape. You can get 7 and 8 shot 38/357's. If that's not enough ammo, consider a second gun...

Most bullets that are going to be effective will easily penetrate 2 or 3 walls that are 2x4 with drywall on each side. There is the glaser safety slug which is supposed to be better, but even those penetrate one wall. I'm also not sure how effective they are. They make a blue and silver and the silver has larger pellets so it penetrates people better. But both may be a bit shallow on penetration. The best solution is pick a bullet with just enough penetration and don't miss!

 

[Kylaen]

Ok, now I'm receiving two different kinds of advice.

 

[Taroman]

As mentioned above, a .45 Auto revolver is a fine choice.
Here's mine.

 

[Kylaen]

I'm not going to be able to easily reload during a home invasion. If I do need to reload, I need to do it very quick. So I'm leaning toward a semi. I need something with an ambidextrous mag release and slide release on the right side, or ambi as well.

 

[JTQ]

Many lefty's use their left hand index/trigger finger to release a standard "righty" mag release.

 

[pblanc]

I agree with suemarkp's assessment. I would not compromise your load for fear of penetrating too much drywall. If, heaven forbid, you need to shoot at an intruder, you need to use a cartridge that has adequate proven penetration and enough muzzle velocity to ensure expansion. I understand the concern regarding over-penetration, but if you find yourself up against an armed intruder your main concern must be to stop the threat as quickly as possible.

Keep in mind, if the intruder has a firearm, he or she may be spraying lead around with absolutely no concern for how much drywall it penetrates or where.

In the past, many standard pressure 38 Special loads did not reliably expand, especially when shot from short barreled revolvers.

This information is a bit dated now, but I think it is still worth a read:

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#.38spl/.357mag

 

[Telekinesis]

I just haven't shot any handguns yet. I don't know what calibers I can handle yet.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Assuming you have moderate strength in your dominant hand, you should be ok with the normal service calibers like 9mm, .40, and .45 especially if you're shooting a full sized gun.

As a general rule, the smaller the gun (assuming the same round), the more recoil you will feel.

Maybe see if a range around you rents pistols? That would be a good way to try out some different designs.

 

[bannockburn]

Kylaen

Well a Gen. 4 Glock 19 has a reversible magazine catch but the slide release would still be on the other side. There would be no safety to deal with as it is built into the trigger design.