what to load my .357 with for home defense?

[harmon rabb]

of my arsenal ( ), i want to keep a revolver on my nightstand. currently, i keep my gp100 loaded with corbon .357 jhp's.

do i need to worry about over-penetration? is there a different home defense round anyone would suggest?

i know, i know, .357 is loud as heck, but it's powerful. i'd like the gun i keep loaded and on my nightstand to be able to stop an intruder with one shot to center mass. .357 is good at doing that...

 

[pps]

keep some peltor earplugs on the stand too. They allow for near normal hearing but have a baffle that drops the sound about 22 db.

125 to 158gr jhp should work. Even 38's will penetrate walls.

 

[Wolfeye]

I prefer cor-bon .38+p 110 gr dpx. I save magnums for when I'm out hiking. I *like* the idea of magnums as a HD round, but I live in an apartment complex.

 

[msiley]

All rounds that are good for HD will go thru walls, including buckshot
and 38 specials (and probably .22 LR for that matter.)

If you miss it's unlikely you'll hit anyone. I'm talking
probabilities here not absolutes. It's the world we live in and you
need to make sure when you pull the trigger you understand you may miss
and it will go thru a wall and there's a small probability it may hit someone. This is something you have to accept if you pull the trigger,
God forbid. Hopefully we are all on target when the time comes.

I use 125 grain .357 Mag. SJHPs. Right next to my GP100 are a pair of muffs. 'Cause the full house 125s will be LOUD but very effective.

 

[BhmBill]

Read some self defense stories.

99% of people don't even remember hearing the gun or feeling the recoil, no matter what gun or load, when experiencing a code red situation. I wouldn't worry about hearing protection.

I keep some 158gr SJHP's in my S&W 581 .357 inside the nightstand.

 

[bullseye308]

Winchester Silvertips.

 

[outerlimit]

Using a .357 revolver for home defense is going to be extremely loud. Get yourself a set of Pro-Ears or something like that. Expect to lose your night vision with the first muzzle blast as well.

 

[Oro]

I keep some 158gr SJHP's in my S&W 581 .357 inside the nightstand.

BhmBill speaks facts, not hypotheticals.

I keep 158gr. SJHP's in my S&W 686 in the nightstand and in speedloaders. This is my normal SD round, though sometimes I use a .45 for variety.

 

[msiley]

99% of people don't even remember hearing the gun or feeling the recoil, no matter what gun or load, when experiencing a code red situation. I wouldn't worry about hearing protection.

I don't want to hijack this thread. But remembering the gunshot and
hearing damage are 2 different things. You can't defy the laws of physics.
The tiny hairs in your ears that make hearing possible will be damaged
regardless of any psychological masking of the event.

I have hearing loss due to shooting a .40 S&W outside.
Biggest mistake of my life. I guess curiosity does kill that cat at times.
Let alone a .357 mag. inside a house. ouch!

Also as far as blast is concerned Double Tap and Buffalo Bore
offer 'low blast' loads. I have some DT on the way right now just
for that reason.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My .357 Magnum carries 145gr Winchester Silvertips.
My .38 Special carries the FBI Load, a 158gr LSWC/HP +P round.

 

[harmon rabb]

msiley, you have hearing loss from how much shooting of a .40 outside?

i shoot at an outdoor range, and have certainly stepped out of the car without ear protection when someone was on the line shooting an ar. i immediately grab the muffs if that happens, but i certainly don't have hearing loss from it... and ar's seem to be about as loud as .357 magnums.

 

[jaholder1971]

Using a .357 revolver for home defense is going to be extremely loud. Get yourself a set of Pro-Ears or something like that. Expect to lose your night vision with the first muzzle blast as well.

Umm, ANYTHING you shoot in the house, firearms wise, is gonna be loud. This is the absolute last thing I'm worrying about if I have to go Condition Red in my home.

I'm sorry, this is tied with hearing protection. Like the BG's going to wait for you to put on your Peltors before shooting him. Sheesh!

 

[wnycollector]

My .357 carry ammo for all of my revolvers is the 158gr gold dot from Doubletap. My wife will carry my snub Ruger Six loaded with Speers short barrel 135gr gold dots.

 

[outerlimit]

You're assuming that said BG is standing over your bed which obviously doesn't give you a second to put on a headset like Pro Ears. If a BG is standing over you as you're sleeping, it's already too late, so I don't understand what point you're trying to make. I have a set of Surefire earpros which take a little bit longer to put on.

Regarding the muzzle flash and noise, there's a level that becomes unacceptable in my opinion, and again, just my opinion in that a .357 revolver crosses that threshold indoors. I'm sure there are many people who have hearing damage from firing a .357 in an alleyway, much less inside of a room. And if I can't see the attacker after the muzzle flash of the first shot, my other shots may not hit the intended target, or worse go through a window.

 

[sterling7c]

C red in darkened room : for first shot close one eye, for second shot open closed eye and close other again. This gives at least two good shots despite flash. The rate of rhodopsin replenishment in retinal rods depends on age - if you're young(er) it's fast enough to enable you to see reasonably well for third and fourth shot if you repeat steps one and two above. Yes it's a mindset developed from training and doesn't come easy but it works.

As for muffs: 5 or 6 shots of 45 ACP inside a small enclosure (like bedroom) will leave ears ringing for a while but is very (as in extremely) unlikely to cause permanent ear damage.

BhmBill said:

99% of people don't even remember hearing the gun or feeling the recoil, no matter what gun or load, when experiencing a code red situation. I wouldn't worry about hearing protection.

Fact.

msiley said:

The tiny hairs in your ears that make hearing possible will be damaged
regardless of any psychological masking of the event.

Not. The hairs you speak of are in fluid within the acoustic labyrinth - this is behind the tympanic membrane (ear drum). Unless the membrane is perforated any hearing loss wil be temporary.

 

[Steve C]

I keep my .357 mags loaded with 125gr JHP's, either CCI Gold Dots or Remington Golden Sabers. Any handgun will penetrate several walls of typical gypboard construction, even the .22lr will go through 3 walls if it doesn't hit a stud, see the informal testing at The Box of Truth.

As mentioned the chance of hitting another person, even in a relatively crowded apartment complex from a bullet passing through the wall is very low but something you should consider so firing warning shots in a self defense situation isn't a good idea. The other thing is that there really is little chance you will actually have to fire your weapon in self defense as most people are never the target of violent crime and even in those situations where a firearm is used in self defense most of the time the firearm isn't fired.

As to the noise, any discharge in an enclosed area from any unsuppressed firearm will leave your ears ringing. Personally I think there are better things to do than putting in ear plugs, like calling 911 and using your hearing to determine where and what an intruder is up to. If the conditions require that you have to fire your weapon, a short term loss of hearing and a potentially slight long term loss is a small price to pay for the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones.

 

[Oro]

The hairs you speak of are in fluid within the acoustic labyrinth - this is behind the tympanic membrane (ear drum). Unless the membrane is perforated any hearing loss wil be temporary.

The anatomy is correct, but the physiology is badly flawed. Sensoneural hearing loss can occur with a functioning tympanic membrane. It is certainly much more likely and profound with a membrane puncture, but that is not a necessary pre-requisite.

Any hearing loss from a gun shot indoors, unprotected SHOULD be temporary, but that's not a guarantee and depends upon the acoustic properties of the room itself, person's age, physical health, medications they may be taking, and even if they are smokers (blood CO levels potentiates noise-induced hearing loss - yes, this applies to smoky bars and loud bands, too).

The tiny hairs in your ears that make hearing possible will be damaged regardless of any psychological masking of the event.

True. Adrenaline or an intense focus on a threat that results in limited perception (or "tunnel vision") is not protective of any physical trauma, it just indeed "masks" it temporarily.

Frankly, I'm very skeptical of the wisdom of using hearing protection in a self-defense situation. I'm not one to carp over the sue-happy speculation that seems to populate SD talk on this forum ("Don't use lead bullets - you'll be sued for trying to poison them!") - but handicapping your hearing when trying to determine what is going on in the night in your home seems really un-wise:

1) You are limiting the one fully-functional sense you have that can help you determine what is going on, and

2) You've already demonstrated you plan to shoot,

I'd rather go into a situation with my senses intact and my mind open, and be able to explain it that way later if things, unfortunately, went south.

 

[psyopspec]

do i need to worry about over-penetration?

Depends on a lot of factors. Do you live in a house, or an apartment? Is the construction typical American interior of drywall, insulation, and studs? Is there a brick or cinder block layer between you and any neighbors? If not, how many walls separate you from them? If you're in a house, how far is the next house from yours? Does the most likely angle at which you'd have to shoot (toward ingress/egress routes) have an acceptable backstop behind it?

i'd like the gun i keep loaded and on my nightstand to be able to stop an intruder with one shot to center mass. .357 is good at doing that...

I've been on this board long enough to know that I can't talk people out of that belief (and it's a very common one). I will suggest that you train as though that were not case, on the slight chance that a lot of the guys who have been there/done that and don't agree with the sentiment that handguns should be relied upon for one stop shots are correct in their thinking.

 

[Confederate]

As much as I respect the 125gr JHP .357 mag round, I certainly wouldn't use it in my home. Many authorities recommend the .38 Special 158-grain +P LSWCHP cartridge (“FBI load”), though I myself use the older 110 JHP +P. When I'm on the road or walking in the middle of nowhere (wilderness), that's when I ramp up the power to magnum force.

Regarding shooting in the dark, I was taught by my trainer years ago, and still believe he was correct, that you shouldn't shoot in the dark. There have been too many accidental shootings where a person was misidentified. If you're in your home, turn on the lights and find cover. You'll generally have plenty of time to see the bad guy and shoot, especially if you're behind a bed or hard to detect. If you hear a noise downstairs and there's no one else in the house, it's best to let the intruder know you're there. A former bugler (now in security) told me that he decided to get out of town while he was robbing a house. "I didn't think anyone was home," he said. ("If I wanted to meet people, I would've been a mugger.) Anyway, I heard the sound of someone upstairs releasing the slide on a semi-automatic." He was so scared that he left everything he'd brought with him, including plastic bags with half filled with goodies, and has been straight ever since.

The point my instructor made was that nothing will ever bring back someone you killed and didn't mean to shoot, and the annals are full of such stories. So, don't shoot in the dark was one of his primary pieces of advice, and I think he was right on.
.

 

[saltydog452]

No dis-respect, but you and your bride should have considered these issues and gotten all this stuff nailed down, flat, before you made the decision to keep a loaded gun close to hand.

Its a family issue, everyone gets involved.

respectfully,

salty

 

[Oro]

No dis-respect, but you and your bride should have considered these issues and gotten all this stuff nailed down, flat, before you made the decision to keep a loaded gun close to hand.

Respectfully, Salty, that is what he is doing in this post - considering the angles/loads and separating facts from myth. I think the wanna-be JAG officer here is doing the right thing...

 

[moga]

Speer 135gr 38+p gold dots for the night stand gun. Which is actually the master bath gun for the missus. Mister has a high cap auto loader in 40 on his side of the bed.

Too much noise, flash, and over-penetration potential with 357 mag rounds in the SD scenario for this urban dweller.

 

[Cpt. America]

Hornady leverlution. 158 gr

 

[Larry Burchfield]

Loads

I like the Speer gold dots in any weight. Also remington used to make a 158 JSP that would work well for home defense.
MHO
Larry Burchfield
SEABEES/RVN/67/68/69
DAV

 

[sterling7c]

Oro:

The anatomy is correct, but the physiology is badly flawed. Sensoneural hearing loss can occur with a functioning tympanic membrane. It is certainly much more likely and profound with a membrane puncture, but that is not a necessary pre-requisite.

Agreed but please see my other post on hearing loss. There are (as you imply when you say 'can occur') many variables as you will well know.

Also from your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by msiley
The tiny hairs in your ears that make hearing possible will be damaged regardless of any psychological masking of the event.

True. Adrenaline or an intense focus on a threat that results in limited perception (or "tunnel vision") is not protective of any physical trauma, it just indeed "masks" it temporarily.

I respectfully disgaree that this is an absolute medical truism. The outcome of any physiological event remains to a large extent a patient dependent variable. Consider current developments in cellular regeneration (largely funded by the US military along with Corporate investment) ... surely you would agree that patient dependent variables must always be taken into consideration. We also have to factor in idiopathic and iatrogenic issues.