Apartment Defense: Specific Loads

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Is this for home/apartment defense only, or will it be a carry weapon? If so skip the snubby, get a 4" barrel, and get it in .357 where you can shoot any load for either 38 or 357. I carry a snubby, but have a 6" GP100 in the nightstand.
 
I like my Airweight J-frame snubbie for home defense - it's light and comfortable enough to be on my person all the time, and I can't count on the bad guy to only invade while I'm near my night stand. A J-frame in a Remora holster will work with pajamas, or even underwear, with a decent waistband, and also in my pillow case too.

I tried a pocket pistol (LCP), which is even easier to carry, but it's not accurate (at least in my hands) - I can shoot an NAA Mini better.
 
Kylaen,

Study the crime patterns in your community before choosing a gun. How common are home invasions with multiple attackers? I bet most of the ones that involve multiple attackers the residents are dealing in drugs or are gang related. So avoiding illegal activity from your apartment will greatly reduce the odds of a home invasion.

The next point is I don't why when talking about home defense there are so many recommendations for a high capacity handgun with extra magazines for reloading. They are talking about extended firefights with harden trained attackers. The reality is once the home owner / resident starts shooting the bad guys are going to be looking for cover and a way out of Dodge City!

I would not be overly concerned about the ammo capacity of your handgun. Since it is for home defense a S&W K-Frame revolver with 4" barrel is a excellent choice. The real advantage of a .38/.357 revolver are all of the choices in ammunition available especially in .38 Special.
 
I have no permit to carry, and I'm interested in getting one, but there's a lot of red tape in Maryland. I'm allowed to carry for my own protection within my home and/or a place of business. That's all I need it for anyway, I carry a knife on me at all times when out in the city. I live in an upper middle class area of my town, away from the worst areas. But I've taken a look at some of the crime stats in my town. LEOs are at an all time low employed in the city, and assaults are of concern. Burglaries and thefts are higher than national averages in my town. I live just outside one of the fanciest areas in my city, but rents are still pretty high. Assuming I can shoot it well one handed, I want a lower velocity round like a .45. I trust a .45, and if my door gets kicked in, 7 or 8 rounds is more than enough. In my own apartment carry weight is not an issue, especially if I get a shoulder holster, which is what I'm looking for.
 
Get a Charter Arms 44 special revolver . 200 gr HP gold dot or the silver tip load . Not much bigger than a 38 snub in size or weight and recoil isn't that bad . I think my 38 snub with +P has more recoil . Only 5 shots but a bigger bullet at slower FPS . Don't need at these hot loaded ammo from Buffalo bore and others. 45 and 44 special have stopped many a BG in their history.
 
Now my thinking is going more toward a government length 1911. I would prefer steel construction to the alloy, as the heavier weight can reduce the recoil. I'm thinking about 230 grain JHPs. So where can I find a steel 1911 with night sights?
 
Kylaen

I don't know what kind of money you're looking to spend but there quite a few different 1911s out there that were specifically designed and built for the left handed shooter. Back in the early 1980's a company called Randall Firearms came out with one of the first stainless steel 1911s. Quality of these guns was very good and they also produced, in very limited numbers, a mirror image version that had all of the operating controls; thumb safety, mag catch, and slide release lever, on the right side of the gun. Some of these occasionally turn up on the gun auction sites.
 
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That would fit my needs, but $1646 MSRP? I'd have to save up for about a year to afford that.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Glaser safety slugs. I had occasion to shoot a deer with one in 38 special and it lived up to the hype.
 
See post 18 for Glasers.

Here's another choice for a lefty http://www.kimberamerica.com/warrior-soc-a?___SID=U

The safety is ambi, it has tritium sights, but the mag release is normal. I have no problem with a mag release on the left side -- just use you index finger. I may be reversible too, but not sure.

Its about the same price range as the other suggested gun.
 
The model 1911 is a revered pistol. I own one and enjoy shooting it. I know many will disagree, some vehemently, but I do not think the model 1911 is necessarily a good choice of self-defense weapon for someone who has not had much experience with pistols.

A single action only (SAO) pistol like the 1911 typically has a quite short and light trigger pull. This can predispose one to unintentional discharges in a tense situation. For self-defense purposes, many or most people want to have a round chambered. If you do you will need to either keep it "cocked and locked" (hammer cocked, safety engaged), or chamber a round and then decock it, a condition which would require you to cock the hammer before firing. If you keep it cocked and locked, you must become proficient at taking the safety off quickly even in low light conditions. The 1911 has no decocking lever so unless you fire the magazine empty you will need to either remove the magazine and rack the slide to clear the chambered round, or manually decock the hammer. If you do not have good use of one hand, manually decocking a 1911 could be tricky, or even dangerous.

Here is a short article outlining the trigger issues with the 1911 for self defense purposes:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/1911-unsuitable-for-self-defense/

The other issue with 1911s is they can be fussy feeding JHP ammunition. The pistol was designed for military use and intended to shoot FMJ ammo which has a rounded projectile that feeds more easily through the rather short and steep feed ramp of the 1911. I know people who have had excellent reliability with less expensive 1911s like the Rock Island Armory models but it is somewhat hit or miss. I have a middle of the road Springfield Armory model and have had a number of failures to feed and failures to eject. While these have not been frequent, they have been often enough that I would be reluctant to trust my life to mine. I have known individuals who have had reliability issues even with rather expensive model 1911s.

Other alternatives to a SAO pistol are traditional DA (DA/SA) pistols, striker-fired pistols, or double action only (DAO) pistols. Many DA/SA pistols have either an external safety, a decocker lever, or a combined safety/decocker. In some peoples minds' an external safety adds an element of insurance against an accidental discharge, but again, they require you to be proficient at taking the pistol off safety and remember to do so. Many people will rely on the long double action trigger pull of the first shot as sufficient security against a negligent discharge and keep a round chambered with the safety off. DA/SA pistols do require the shooter to deal with the transition between the first longer and heavier DA shot, and the subsequent lighter and shorter SA shots. This seems to be easier for some people to master than others.

Most striker-fired and DAO pistols have no manual safety but again rely on the somewhat longer and heavier trigger pull to guard against a ND.

You don't need an all steel, or even an all metal gun to tame the recoil of the .45 ACP cartridge. I have 2 full-size pistols in .45 caliber I keep for home defense. One is a Stoeger Cougar 8045 F which is an all metal gun (steel slide/aluminum frame) DA/SA pistol with an external safety/decocker. The safety/decocker on the Cougar can be converted to a decocker only fairly easily. The magazine capacity is 8 rounds, same as for a model 1911 with an extended capacity, flush fit magazine. It also has a picatinny accessory rail for mounting a light, laser, or laser/light combo. I feel that the perceived recoil of the Stoeger Cougar 8045 is less than that for my SA 1911. I bought mine for around $400 and I have seen them available online at that price.

The other .45 cal pistol I have for home defense is a SIG Sauer full size P320 which is a striker-fired pistol with a polymer frame. Like most striker-fired pistols it has no external safety. It has a consistent trigger pull that is a bit heavier than my (and most) 1911s. It also has an accessory rail. Magazine capacity is 10 rounds. I recently bought my P320 for just under $500. Perceived recoil is certainly no greater than my 1911 and I believe it is probably less but I have not shot the two side by side (my 1911 is at the gunsmith who is trying to make it more reliable).
 
Wow, that Stoeger Cougar looks like it would be a good fit, and much more affordable.
 
The Stoeger Cougar is based on the erstwhile Beretta Cougar. Beretta brought the Cougar out and marketed it to law enforcement agencies as a shorter slide alternative to the Beretta 92 FS which a number of LEAs were then using. The Cougar also has a more ergonomic grip for most than the Beretta 92 FS which has a grip that is too fat for many. The Stoeger was basically designed as a carry duty pistol with a full length grip, but a shorter slide and barrel which made it a bit quicker on the draw. The Cougars all have a rotary barrel lock up design, which was inherited by the Beretta PX4 Storm.

Unfortunately, the Cougar came out around the same time that Glock was making major inroads into law enforcement agencies and Glock had much smarter and superior marketing. Largely due to Glock, traditional double action pistols like the Cougar were decreasing in popularity compared to the striker-fired action pistols like Glocks. The Cougar did not sell as well as Beretta had hoped and it was clear that the world was moving away from all metal pistols for duty carry and toward polymer framed pistols. Beretta decided to cease production of the Cougar and concentrate on the polymer framed PX4s.

Beretta International is owned by Benelli which also owns Stoeger. Benelli decided to ship the tooling for the Cougar to Turkey where Cougars could be manufactured with much lower labor costs by Stoeger.

I have two Beretta mini-Cougars which are short grip variants of the Cougar. One is USA made and the other Italian made. My .45 caliber Cougar is a Stoeger. I have disassembled the Stoeger pretty thoroughly and polished up the action parts. I can not see any difference in build quality between my Turkish Stoeger Cougar, my American Beretta mini-Cougar, or my Italian Beretta mini-Cougar. The Stoeger has a slightly less glossy finish than the Beretta Cougars. My Stoeger is the softest shooting of the three .45 caliber pistols I own and is quite accurate. Most owners of Stoeger Cougars consider them to be some of the best value pistols on the market. Everyone who has shot mine has been impressed with its recoil absorption and astounded by how little I paid for it. If you are considering a full frame, all-metal, DA/SA pistol the only negatives I perceive are the somewhat limited ammo capacity of 8+1 (same as a model 1911) and some people just hate a slide mounted safety.

Having said that, I have read a couple accounts on the internet in which buyers or potential buyers of the Stoeger Cougar were unhappy with what they perceived to be poor fit and slides that rattled. All I can say is that my Stoeger Cougar purchased about a year ago is tight as a drum.
 
I think the Stoger might be a good gun for me. I mean, I've thought about the single stack Glocks that fire either .45 ACP or that .45 GAP round, but I haven't done enough homework on those yet.
 
I have a glock 21 and like it (and they cost under $600, but more if tritium sights). Since you're in Maryland and I think they have a magazine limit, having the 13 round capability may not apply to you (but if you can have 10, that is better than what is in a 1911 style gun or 7 or 8 rounds).

I still think you may be better with a revolver. S&W 625 is 6 rounds of 45 ACP, but it is a large N frame and your hands may not be large enough to handle it well. A new one will set you back about $900 (without night sights). If you need to shoot more than 6 times I'd save my money to move to a better location.

You could also choose the S&W Governor which shoots 45ACP, 45 Colt, and 410 shotgun shells. For 410 loads, I'd only recommend the Federal 4 pellet 00 buckshot rounds in it of, as they should penetrate walls less than 45 auto. There is also a somewhat slow 3 pellet .40 caliber 410 buckshot load, but I have not tried those for reliability. But these may not be as effective -- its difficult to compare 4 holes at .35" to 3 holes at .40" to one hole of .45" to .75" (depending on if the bullet expands).

Finally, I'd suggest going to a target range that rents guns. Try some 1911's, a glock, a revolver from S&W, Taurus, or Charter Arms. See what you can work well, what recoil level you can tolerate.
 
I'll have to see if I can find a range that lets me try guns out. I need to get a feel for what is comfortable to shoot.
 
Kylaen - In reading your requirements I kept think S&W Model 10.

You can get it in a 2" if you don't absolutely have to have a brand new one.

You might also consider a round butt. It's a bit smaller & easier to handle.
 
I live in an apartment, the Governor is my bedside buddy, the Judge is a more affordable alternative. The Gov handles any blend of .410 SD shotshells as well as .45 LC and .45 ACP. And it has a night sight up front. Plus you can use moonclips if fast reloading is needed. I like the versatility of the weapon, especially when to comes ammo choices that are effective with less risk of over penetration through walls, etc. Just one more to consider.
 
Make sure whether or not your lease has a "no-firearms" clause; wouldn't want you to do all that mental legwork for no reason.

Having said that, if I needed a left-handed gun, I would use a CZ-85. It has ambidextrous safeties and slide releases and "slide racker" sights that you can hook on a table edge, drawer, etc. to pull the slide.
 
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