Apartment Defense

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global247

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Best options for home defense in a stick built apartment? I have a wife, she isn't very big, and may need to also be able to handle whatever I buy because I am not always home at night. What is effective and safe for apartments? I am brand new to shotguns. (I have a pistol)

Thank You
 
I would recommend a Saiga 410 semi-auto shotgun with steel BB or lead #4 buck. The BB shot penetrates clothing and flesh very well and loses velocity in mediums like drywall quickly, thus limiting potential collateral damage. Recoil is less than that of lead shot. Some prefer the lead #4 Buck. The 410 can be handled and shot by those of a small stature and the recoil is tolerable for most. The second and third shot, if needed, is quick. The Saiga is a very reliable and well made weapon.
 
I don't know, I am thinking something along the lines of 410...
That Taurus Judge might seem like a good idea for inside an apartment. You don't want deep penetration. Perhaps a tactical shotgun made by Remington, Mossberg, or Benelli might be good. get something you can handle well. Honestly, I would avoid handguns.
For the shotgun, it would be your preference for pump or auto. A backup of pepper spray or a stun gun of some kind would be a good supplement to the shotgun.
I don't know about that Saiga, do you want to fool around with magazines? Or, do you want to have your shells in a tube under the barrel? Keep things simple.
Anyway, I am sure alot of folk will help you out with this topic. Go over what people say and decide for yourself what seems best for your needs.
 
If you live in a typical apartment with thin walls, I'd stick with the pistol you already have. Make sure you have it loaded with hollow points.

A standard 12 or 20-gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot might take out a family member in the next room, or a neighbor in an adjoining apartment.
 
Any firearm will go through multiple walls in an apartment, and a shotgun would just result in a ton more projectiles going everywhere, increasing the chances of injuring or killing someone if you miss, especially since hitting the first wall will usually make the shot scatter pretty widely. If you wouldn't use a .32 ACP submachine gun, you probably shouldn't use a shotgun with buckshot either.

Your best bet would be to try and use the apartment's layout if at all possible, and put some kind of backstop, like a completely filled bookshelf, behind any "choke point" approaching the master bedroom. A couple layers of big, thick books taped together, like phone books or JC Penney's catalogs, would work great, and could be hidden behind a close-backed shelf or something, so they're not unsightly. Do two layers and overlap them so there are no gaps a bullet could slip through. Paper is surprisingly good at stopping pistol JHPs. FMJ ball will whizz right through several inches of paper, but in my limited experience, none of the pistol hollowpoints I tested made it more than halfway through even a single JC Penney's catalog. I shot it with a couple types of .22 LR, .357 magnum 158 gr SJHP, and a few different 180 gr .40 S&W JHPs. They all expanded in the paper and stopped. Whichever gun you end up deciding to use, take a few phone books or catalogs to the range and try shooting them, so you know about what thickness you'd need.

I'd stick with a handgun, or maybe a pistol caliber carbine. Use a good quality hollowpoint, pre-fragmented ammo is a gimmick. If your handgun is a revolver, or you get a revolver caliber lever-action carbine, use semi-jacketed hollowpoints, as those will usually penetrate building materials less. 12 gauge shotgun with reduced recoil 00 buck would also work, but wouldn't be my first choice, especially if you're new to shotguns. The manual of arms for any manual action (pump, lever, etc.) takes a bit more getting used to, so you and your wife would want to practice more at first, compared to a semi-auto.

Spread on shotguns is overrated (until the shot hits a wall, anyway), so you really can't count on buckshot making it any easier to hit. At apartment distances, you can expect the shot to spread less than 6". Probably less than 4".

And check out the box o' truth for comparative penetration of stuff. http://www.theboxotruth.com/

If I were in your position, I'd probably go for either a Kel-Tec or Hi-Point pistol caliber carbine (as budget dictates) in the same caliber as the pistol.
 
A shallow wound on A Bad Guy isn't much better, IMO, than using harsh language. Whatever you use, make it's an effective stopper and have both of you practice regularly.

When I was in a similar scenario, I chose a 20ga pump loaded with whatever buckshot I could find in bulk. My biggest mistake wasn't the choice of firearm or ammo, but of not practicing NEARLY enough.
 
Contrary to popular recommendations, I don't recommend a shotgun for indoor HD purposes.
 
If you live in a typical apartment with thin walls, I'd stick with the pistol you already have. Make sure you have it loaded with hollow points.

A standard 12 or 20-gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot might take out a family member in the next room, or a neighbor in an adjoining apartment.

A pistol round is going to go just as far, if not farther.




I keep my mossberg 590 loaded with #4 buck when I'm at my apartment.

For a little lady, a 12ga *MIGHT* be a bit much.

You'll never know until you take her to the range.


I had one girlfriend who handles my 590 with slugs really well.

Granted, she's like 5'10", but still, don't underestimate your wife.
 
AR-15 with hollowpoints/frangibles. It's what I keep close at hand in my apartment - lower recoil, higher capacity, less penetration than shotguns.
 
Whoa, I didn't know they made frangible rifle rounds.

It would be interesting if someone would develop a frangible slug for personal defense, and not just door busting.
 
An apartment is a situation where a shotgun and birdshot just might make sense. How about something like this (I could have done without the camo furniture though)?
 
A good quality 12 gauge pump-action with a short stock, good recoil pad, field length forearm, and low recoil 00 buckshot. The best way to minimize any overpenetration is to not miss. Spend some time at the range instead of using substandard loads like birdshot when your life is on the line.

I live in an apartment, but I actually spent time patterning my shotgun's defensive load. Federal Vital-Shok 00 Buckshot at 10 yards will stay within a playing card. There is no reason to use birdshot when you can easily achieve patterns like this with good quality 00 buckshot like Federal's 00 buckshot loads with the Flite-Control Wad.
 
Posted by DAVIDSDIVAD:
A pistol round is going to go just as far, if not farther.

^Nonsense!

A hollow point round from a typical self-defense caliber handgun has significantly less barrier penetration and wounding capability than buckshot, especially 12-gauge buckshot.
 
A hollow point round from a typical self-defense caliber handgun has significantly less barrier penetration and wounding capability than buckshot, especially 12-gauge buckshot.
Not so much, despite 'conventional wisdom' to the contrary.

According to the 'Box Of Truth', 12ga #4 Buck penetrates fewer interior walls than does most any handgun round and fewer than M193 5.56NATO rifle ammo:

Handgun and M193 5.56NATO test - http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

Buckshot test - http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

More testing - http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Most gelatin tests for #4 buck shows that it meets the 12" penetration goal, making it look (to me, at least) like the most viable round for self-defense in an apartment.
 
Defensory

Actually....

Rifles/handguns

Shotguns

More penetration exhibited even by HP pistol rounds than full power 00 buck from 12ga.

As for my comments on .223, the HP ammo I use breaks apart between five and seven sheets of drywall - a risk I am willing to take for lower recoil and more accuracy.
 
why not Flopsy

Because your house will look like swiss cheese when you're done and long guns are much more difficult to maneuver indoors than a handgun. And especially if you're in an apartment, you're going to end up giving your neighbors a very unfortunate surprise.

There is no reason to use birdshot when you can easily achieve patterns like this with good quality 00 buckshot like Federal's 00 buckshot loads with the Flite-Control Wad.

Really? How about the folks sitting on the other side of the drywall? Remember he said he's in an apartment.
 
Really? How about the folks sitting on the other side of the drywall? Remember he said he's in an apartment.

You are unlikely to have overpenetration when you actually hit your target. There are plenty of shotshell resources that focus on the penetration of common defensive loads. Birdshot has never shown to be effective, and its quite asinine to use it when your life is on the line.

Unless you are using Less Than Lethal shells, you are going to have overpenetration in typical apartment walls in nearly every caliber. Train to hit your target, and I guarantee it won't be an issue.

Also, here is a good site that has a lot of ballistic testing on shotshells: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958
 
Quote:
why not Flopsy
Because your house will look like swiss cheese when you're done and long guns are much more difficult to maneuver indoors than a handgun. And especially if you're in an apartment, you're going to end up giving your neighbors a very unfortunate surprise.

Quote:
There is no reason to use birdshot when you can easily achieve patterns like this with good quality 00 buckshot like Federal's 00 buckshot loads with the Flite-Control Wad.
Really? How about the folks sitting on the other side of the drywall? Remember he said he's in an apartment.


well, jeez, I don't think he plans on getting into any running gunfights through his house.


I mean, honestly, since apartments are small, they are easy to control.

In mine, my room and my brother's face the door through the living room, nobody behind the front door but a parking lot and an empty house.
 
AR15!!! lol sorry, everyones got their thing. Seems like good quality HP's would do the trick, especially if you threw a light on the end of it. Recoil would be more than manageable, especially for your lady. Granted, its a lot larger $$ investment than the shotgun or pistol. If my AR isn't around, I use my .45. That said, I don't actually have a shotgun. If I still had it, my benelli m3super90 might be doing the bedside defense routine.
 
I keep my old 12ga. Ithica Model 37 handy...it has the deerslayer barrel and is just a tad over 18". These old pumps will fire as fast as you can pump it you hold the trigger...

Looked at the Saiga this weekend....it is definitely on my must have for home defense list.
 
I keep my old 12ga. Ithica Model 37 handy...it has the deerslayer barrel and is just a tad over 18". These old pumps will fire as fast as you can pump it you hold the trigger...

lol, wait until the ATF hears about that and makes them machine guns.
 
What is effective and safe for apartments?

Safe? Kind of an oxymoron isn't it?

It reminds me of the famous old story about the Texas Ranger that was approached by a lady who pointed to his cocked and locked 1911, and said, "Isn't that dangerous?"

"Hell yes it's dangerous, if it weren't what would I need it for?"

I understand the concern. However, for me the effectiveness of the weapon / load is of paramount concern. I will of course do my best to minimize collateral damage, but if I am not effective against the threat, what does anything else matter?
 
Ever tried punching a person? If you have your hand probably didn't go through them.

Try punching drywall. You'll go right through it.

Anything that will poke a hole into a human is going to penetrate drywall. The laws of physics will not be denied.
 
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