What 9mm round for apartment HD?

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Orion8472

Orion8472

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If your options for home defense is a 9mm handgun, what is the best option to use if you live in an apartment? Should I stick with 115gr. or go even lighter? I'm guessing heavier is not a good choice, right?
 
115 or 124 JHP.
And don't 'Spray & Pray'!

Make every shot count and over-penetration will not be an issue.

rc
 
I have no shotgun, nor will I be getting one anytime soon. But I have some lighter grain 9mm I can put in it.

What about those "all copper" type of rounds?
 
Just pick an effective round, stopping the threat is the first priority. The difference in wall penetration between a copper 90g and 147 lead HP can't be that much (and it will be a lot more than 2+ walls anyway in either case). The frangibles have pathetic terminal performance, so they aren't even worth considering IMO.

Speer gold Dot 124g is fairly easy to find and one of the best loads out there.
 
Currently, I'm running 147gr Federal HST out of a full size pistol [with tactical light].
 
I'm fine with the Remington-UMC 115-grain JHP stuff in both my carry gun and in my P95, which does HD duty only on occasion. But, my satisfaction with it stems largely from its ready-availability (in addition to its excellent performance in running in my guns.)
 
Anything that won't penetrate your walls, won't go deap enough to reliably stop the threat. Use something that 1.feeds reliably in your pistol. & 2. is accurate in your pistol. Just work on shot placement.
Avoid all those super light (in 9mm this means less than 115gr) wonder bullets. They don't work.
Besides by the time the bullet has gone through two layers of sheetrock, chances are it won't have enough energy left to do any real damage anyway.
 
Lucky Derby summed it up very well. Handgun rounds are going to zip through many, many sheets of drywall unless they hit something solid. There's no way to avoid this without using one of the many overpriced, super-light pre-fragmented rounds that are terribly unreliable at actually stopping a threat.

If you're truly worried about over-penetrating walls, a .223 rifle loaded with defensive rounds is definitely your best bet. Handgun bullets and shotgun pellets aren't going fast enough to fragment in walls, so they usually end up over-penetrating. But .223 hollow- and soft-points tend to fragment violently in walls and therefore they expend their energy very quickly. In most tests they fragment in the first wall and don't penetrate through the second.

When I lived in an apartment, I was also worried about hurting my neighbors. So my primary home defense weapon was my AR-15 loaded with 55 gr. V-max rounds. My apartment was small so I wasn't worried about accessibility; I just kept it in my kitchen and it was never too far away from me. Now that I live in a house, my Glock 19 is my primary home-defense weapon because I can carry it on my body without having to worry about getting to my rifle in time.

If you're going to use a 9mm in an apartment, I wouldn't worry about what ammo you're using; a 147 gr. hollow-point will zip through many sheets of drywall, but a 115 gr. hollow-point won't be much better. The best you can do is to make sure you hit what you're aiming at.
 
I would personally choose either 147 gr or 124 gr loaded as slow as possible so they won't over-penetrate as much as a hot & light bullet will.

Won't matter much whether FMJ or JHP because jHPs tend to get their cavity filled with wall debris and act just like FMJs when going thru walls.
 
personally I would use one of these....125 grain bullet with 4.3 grains of Unique
 

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Top defense/protection rounds in 9x19mm .....

For the 9mm(9x19mm), I would suggest these rounds;
The Hornady Critical Duty +P 135gr, the Corbon DPX, the Glaser Safety Slug(silver), Magsafe SWAT, the Ranger T T Series 127gr +P+ JHP, the bonded Ranger T 124gr JHP +P, the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P JHP, the Winchester PDX1 load.
I would not carry or use hand loads or reloaded ammunition for defense. Some reloaders or hunters may think they are experts or know more than major factory engineers but Id stick with a well made LE grade 9x19mm round. ;)
If I were to buy a new 9mm service pistol, Id also get some boxes of T Series 127gr +P+ JHP(in use with many US police agencies) or the potent Critical Duty +P round. The large PD in my metro area has issued the T Series 127gr 9x19mm for many years with + results(SIG Sauer P226R & P229R). The NYPD has authorized the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P JHP for a long time too.

Exotic or "frangible" rounds like the Glaser Safety Slug(silver) or MagSafe may be smart if you live in a apt complex. I used MagSafe rounds in my M&P Compact .45acp in 2013. They reduce the risk of ricochets or over-penetration.
Corbon's PowRball loads are impressive too if feed/cycle issues are present with your semi auto pistol.

Rusty
www.midwayusa.com www.sgammo.com www.shopcorbon.com www.magsafeonline.com
 
If it were me, I'd stoke it with Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+. They clock out of my G17 at just over 1,300 fps and would be the best bet if you desire to limit over penetration since it's low sectional density, high velocity and a traditional cup/core JHP design, it's also got a very good reputation on the street. My second choice would be any 124gr +P JHP, preferably something non bonded like the Remington Golden Sabre or Federal HST. Corbon has a few interesting JHP's too, like their 115gr +P+ and 125gr +P JHP.
 
I've done some test with a "interior wall" that I made with left over pieces of Sheetrock and 2x4. Granted I did not use frangible ammo, but 115gr-147gr jhps all went through. As has already been said any round that is going to stop someone is going to go through walls. You also have to think about the bullets the criminal is using, now you will not know what type of rounds he is using so plan ahead and ad some book cases in likely areas to help stop rounds. I personally would not use reloads for defensive purposes, the legal aspects are very iffy. Personally I use Gold dot 124+p, but 115+p+ would be good as well.
Hope this helps.
 
I would have thought that a 55gr varmit tip .223 would easily go through sheetrock. :confused:
 
Pick a load that 1) works in your gun reliably 2) has decent penetration in gel, 12" or more.

After that, you don't worry about the gun jamming, you worry about your lanes of fire. That is the entire point of the concern about having bullets flying thru the walls and hitting family members or neighbors. What nobody apparently does is analyze what their lanes of fire are and what the backstops are.

If you are at your bedroom door and there is an intruder in the apartment, where would they likely stand, and what direction would you be shooting at? Sideways into your neighbors apartment or your child's bedroom? This is where the concerns about overpenetration get a foothold, the less knowledgeable are apparently thinking that they will be firing in a 360 degree circle and anything is vulnerable. The reality is that you will be directing fire in just a few narrow arcs and that is where you concentrate the most of your analysis.

In that regard, if the intruder is sheltering behind the front corner of the hallway, would it not be appropriate to put rounds thru the wall? Even if the projectile is slowed, a hit is still a hit and can slow or disable the threat. That is exactly why the military doesn't really supply ammo that "blows up" and lacks penetration. It's urban myth. They supply ammo that can go thru stacks of AK magazines in chest carriers, adobe walls, or cars. It removes the obstacle from being cover to bullet riddled concealment, and forces the intruder to quickly reconsider. It has a steel penetrator for a reason. It breaks in half to create another wound channel. It's not a hollow point with 6" of penetration - it can penetrate 3/8 steel plate at 350 meters. .223 hunting ammo is designed to a lesser standard, but I wouldn't count on it falling to the ground after two sheets of drywall, either.

Don't worry about penetration, worry about reliable functioning first, and having enough penetration to do the job when needed. The low penetration self defense "experts" aren't selling you a good answer for a tough situation. (Which rarely if ever actually happens . . .)
 
Stan Chem ASYM Precision 115gr +P using the Barnes solid copper bullet in my HD guns.
 
Thanks for the input, guys. Realistically, my apartment is one of the least probable for being robbed. I'm on the 4th floor [no one is getting up to my window] and the building requires card key access. I was just wondering if my choice of ammo was a bad idea for my location.

Again, thanks for the input.
 
Orion8472 said:
Thanks for the input, guys. Realistically, my apartment is one of the least probable for being robbed. I'm on the 4th floor [no one is getting up to my window] and the building requires card key access. I was just wondering if my choice of ammo was a bad idea for my location.

Again, thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
I would not worry to much about a robbery at that height. Two years of being a mover and I promised myself never to live over two stories above ground. Back on subject. Massad Ayoob has a video on HD that I've heard is very good, been meaning to get it myself.
 
Orion8472 said:
I would have thought that a 55gr varmit tip .223 would easily go through sheetrock.
Click to expand...
It will go through sheetrock, but it will usually fragment out the other side, whereas shotgun and handgun loads usually won't. It's because of the extremely high velocity combined with the low bullet weight; the .223 bullet starts to fragment violently and it therefore dumps energy very quickly. Here's the results of a test showing various self-defense loads through walls:

http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

And here's another test:

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=26
 
In that regard, if the intruder is sheltering behind the front corner of the hallway, would it not be appropriate to put rounds thru the wall? Even if the projectile is slowed, a hit is still a hit and can slow or disable the threat.
Click to expand...

This is truly good thinking.

Unfortunately I live in a "half double" called a duplex in some parts of the country and have thought about the potential effects on my neighbors who are my friends. I decided the 124 gr would be the appropriate load with a + round not necessary.
 
 
Yes, those are all legitimate threads on defensive ammo, . . . but I was more interested in the use of that ammo in an apartment setting where other families come into play, and a potential over penetrating projectile.

Thanks, though.
 
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