Appalling new TSA screening procedure
- Thread starter Tall Man
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Brett Bellmore
Member
The point is they can't, without screening that's a LOT more invasive than that. You up for body cavity searches? Being fed laxatives, and locked in a room for 24 hours, waiting for your guts to empty? Being subjected to neutron activation analysis and biopsy of anything that looks suspicious?
They CAN'T keep explosives from getting onto planes, without a level of search that would put the airlines out of business! Once people are willing to die for the cause, there are so many options for hiding explosives on a body, the task becomes hopeless.
It's all just a public relations scam. If the terrorists want to blow up a plane, nothing they're doing will stop it.
hops
Member
The new TSA proc one day soon will be:
Arrive at Airport. Take off Clothes and Shoes.
Have full body MRI or some scan like that taken.
Put on Orange coloured paper suit with paper shoes.
We all also get to wear a depends daiper.
We board the plane and are strapped in to the seats.
WHen plane lands we get released and our clothes back.
Avoids the body and cavity searches - and I've been humiliated 2x now - infornt of other travellers. The above proc is almost better. Ha Ha..
Ok, is the above proc not already in use by the US Marshall's Service for Con Air?
Arrive at Airport. Take off Clothes and Shoes.
Have full body MRI or some scan like that taken.
Put on Orange coloured paper suit with paper shoes.
We all also get to wear a depends daiper.
We board the plane and are strapped in to the seats.
WHen plane lands we get released and our clothes back.
Avoids the body and cavity searches - and I've been humiliated 2x now - infornt of other travellers. The above proc is almost better. Ha Ha..
Ok, is the above proc not already in use by the US Marshall's Service for Con Air?
Remington788
Member
I agree with the bomb dog idea. Everyone gets sniffed by the dog and if he "hits" on you, then you get extra attention. This would eliminate the need for the so called random searches as well as settle the reasonable cause issue.
The added benefit of an on site bomb dog for any bomb threats or unattended baggage is an added bonus.
The added benefit of an on site bomb dog for any bomb threats or unattended baggage is an added bonus.
Derby FALs
Member In Memoriam
Probably be of higher intelligence than the normal TSA employee.
another okie
Member
"It doesn't allow for any other method for permitting such a search."
Actually this is incorrect. The Fourth Amendment has two distinct clauses, which modern jurisprudence tends to blur. The first is that we should not be subject to unreasonable searches. The second is that a warrant cannot issue without cause.
It does not say that a search is unreasonable if conducted without a warrant, and at the time it was written warrants were rare. If the police wished to search they usually just did so, and if you felt the search was unreasonable you sued them. The court then determined if the search was reasonable or not, and awarded damages where appropriate.
Police finally figured out that if they got a warrant they were immune from lawsuits and it became customary to get warrants almost all the time, when possible. But there are still whole books on the Fourth Amendment with chapters setting out all the times when it is reasonable to search without a warrant, such as a crime in progress, drunk driving checkpoints, Terry searches, and so on.
Actually this is incorrect. The Fourth Amendment has two distinct clauses, which modern jurisprudence tends to blur. The first is that we should not be subject to unreasonable searches. The second is that a warrant cannot issue without cause.
It does not say that a search is unreasonable if conducted without a warrant, and at the time it was written warrants were rare. If the police wished to search they usually just did so, and if you felt the search was unreasonable you sued them. The court then determined if the search was reasonable or not, and awarded damages where appropriate.
Police finally figured out that if they got a warrant they were immune from lawsuits and it became customary to get warrants almost all the time, when possible. But there are still whole books on the Fourth Amendment with chapters setting out all the times when it is reasonable to search without a warrant, such as a crime in progress, drunk driving checkpoints, Terry searches, and so on.
Flyboy
Member
I don't know why this bothers so many people; I've flown literally dozens of times in the past year (probably approaching a hundred, actually), and I don't get searched. Matter of fact, since I got my permit, I haven't flown without my 1911 on my hip.
Man, I love sitting in seat 0-A.
(Yes, there's a message here. To heck with the airlines; they're uncomfortable, inconvenient, the food sucks, and I can beat them on any trip of less than a thousand miles. And I think this "we're going to grope you now" crap is just that. May the airlines all suffer the fruits of their demands for government goons^W screeners.)
Man, I love sitting in seat 0-A.
(Yes, there's a message here. To heck with the airlines; they're uncomfortable, inconvenient, the food sucks, and I can beat them on any trip of less than a thousand miles. And I think this "we're going to grope you now" crap is just that. May the airlines all suffer the fruits of their demands for government goons^W screeners.)
Finch
Member
I work for the TSA. I have done these "Horrible intrusive touchy perverted upper torso pat downs of doom" and have yet to recive one complaint. The women don't grop the breast. One lady get's a stick up he arse, decideds to plead to the media, and WOAH, the government is tromping on our freedoms. But of course we don't take not of the millions of people who fly daily without incedent. But we will jump on the bandwagon with the select few who bitch and moan.
Give me another solution. How about we pull out all security from airports. Although airlines are still a ripe target. Then when they planes start falling, bitch at the government who did nothing. I know some of you may think "well if they allowed us to carry firearms on planes, we wouldn't need TSA." Well, frankly, I belive that if we were allowed to carry firearms on board aircraft, we wouldn't need terrorist. I have seen to many stupid armchair commandos at the range to feel safe next to a guy on an airplane with a gun. You may know you abilities with a firearm, but until I do, keep it away from me and off any plane I am on.
Give me another solution. How about we pull out all security from airports. Although airlines are still a ripe target. Then when they planes start falling, bitch at the government who did nothing. I know some of you may think "well if they allowed us to carry firearms on planes, we wouldn't need TSA." Well, frankly, I belive that if we were allowed to carry firearms on board aircraft, we wouldn't need terrorist. I have seen to many stupid armchair commandos at the range to feel safe next to a guy on an airplane with a gun. You may know you abilities with a firearm, but until I do, keep it away from me and off any plane I am on.
And with comments like these, it makes me glad firearms are not allowed to be carried on. Nothing of substance, let's resort to petty insults.
cropcirclewalker
member
This is what we can look forward too.
Maybe better to be stripped naked and chained to the chair. The hood over the head would still be good. That way the passengers would not be so humiliated by the ogling flight attendants.
I hope the airlines go so broke that nobody but .gov employees can fly. They deserve it.
Archie
Member
Actually Mr. Bellmore, twenty minutes will see if a person has 'foreign items' secreted in their body. I'll stipulate in certain cases differentiating narcotics from explosives may be problematic; but 'foreign items' is 'foreign items'; that one ain't making his flight.
The correct answer to question 1 is 'reasonable'. There are several exceptions to the Fourth Amendment requirement for a 'search warrant'. There are no exceptions to the 'reasonableness' requirement.
For everyone who asks the "...how would you like..." question, answer me this: How would you like five to ten percent of the people you deal with in your jobs to have a screaming hissy fit when you attempted to perform your job?
Were it up to me, I would issue guns to passengers on domectic flights. Bombs are another problem altogether. There is pretty much no defense from a bomb on an airplane. Unfortunately, with Ms Whatzername screaming bloody murder, it's really hard to make real progress in the contraband interdiction field.
I am really amazed at the response to this. I thought more High Roaders were adults.
By the way, we almost have a new world's sniveling record on this thread. It still doesn't beat out Al Gore and the DNC in 2000. But it's close.
wprebeck
Member
I'd like to comment solely on the search technique, and not on the "this is retarded, why are they doing it?" comments. I don't fly , so I don't care about it, to be honest, and I don't want to get caught up in the right/wrong aspects of why they are doing this. I'd just like to make some remarks about HOW to do a proper search, and what one can find if a search is done correctly, so please, no flaming me about the reasoning behind the searches. I neither agree, nor disagree, with the reasons for doing...
Now, with that out of the way, let me give you some background on myself:
I work at a jail. Specifically, a decent sized one (2000 inmates in custody at any given point, 40,000 booked per year) here in Louisville. I've been there for the past 4.5 years, the last 2 of which have been in an area that requires me to search incoming prisoners.
Having done this job for a couple of years, and groped many hundreds of people, I feel that I perform a fairly competent search. Yes, a search is uncomfortable, and you WILL have your groin/buttocks area searched. After all, if that area isn't checked, you can hide a number of items there. Here's just some of what I've personally found, and where it was:
18.5 grams of crack cocaine - partially inserted into rectum.
14 grams of powdered cocaine - see above
1/2 pack of Newport cigarettes - rubber banded around Mr. Winkie (I kid you not...I actually got an indictment against him, too. The grand jury LOVED my testimony)
Cigarette lighters - under Mr. Winkie, partially in rectum, in between buttocks, in shoes, socks, etc.
While not my finds, I've also seen:
A cell phone - buttocks
Another phone - waistband
Handcuff key - shoe
Meth - socks, shoes, pants, etc
See, doing a search ain't fun for the people performing it, either. For those of you in Louisville, remember the article in SNITCH recently about the two officers that find all the contraband? Those two guys are on my shift, and I've learned mch from them. The article described them as seeing more booty than a porn star, or something to that effect, hehe. But, that's the truth. I can guarantee that if you put something up your butt, be it cigarettes (yep, they still smoke them), lighters, crack, whatever, I can feel it. And, that's without taking your pants off. Unless it's shoved COMPLETELY in there, I'll feel it. You may not (and probably won't) like it (I don't), but I'll search the entire area around your groin, including underneath and in between things.
For women, it's a bit different, and for obvious reasons, I don't search them at work. But, they do have their breasts searched. We give our female officer crap about that, from time to time, hehe.
Anyway, my point is, I don't NEED to do a strip search on you, to find things. The strip search only comes into play after I feel something that could be contraband, and lemme tell ya, that's worse than doing a pat-down, sometimes. I swear, I've seen more men naked this year, than most women do in their lifetime.....And that sucks.
Man, I keep going off on a tangent....Sorry about that. Basically, I just wanted to get the point across that a GOOD search will make the person being searched uncomfortable. Let's face it, if you're not gonna do a thorough search, then why bother putting on the gloves at all? If you're scared or too squeamish to touch another man's groin, then you should find another job. If you don't want this done to you, then don't get locked up. Like I said, I'm not gonna get into the TSA issue, because I simply don't care. I don't fly, I'm not likely to fly anytime in the near future, and it'd be tempting to shove something under my stuff, just to see if the screener caught it, anyway. Yeah, I'm obnoxious like that sometimes, especially when I do a better job of it, than they do.
For those who don't like being searched, my only suggestion, in a non-sarcastic tone, is to not fly. I'm aware that's not a possibility for some of you, and I understand that. In your cases, I'd suggest pushing for a momvement to allow for CCW on airlines. After watching Mythbusters, the TSA/FAA have lost the whole "depressurization" argument, haven't they?
And, for all you street guys out there:
Please, for the love of everything sacred, search your prisoners. I get tired of adding charges on people, because road cops are scared to dig around in someone's butt for a minute. And hey, I did see a cuff key in a shoe once. What if the person in question had gotten that out, and used it? Dead officer, perhaps, like the two in Florida a few years back....
Now, with that out of the way, let me give you some background on myself:
I work at a jail. Specifically, a decent sized one (2000 inmates in custody at any given point, 40,000 booked per year) here in Louisville. I've been there for the past 4.5 years, the last 2 of which have been in an area that requires me to search incoming prisoners.
Having done this job for a couple of years, and groped many hundreds of people, I feel that I perform a fairly competent search. Yes, a search is uncomfortable, and you WILL have your groin/buttocks area searched. After all, if that area isn't checked, you can hide a number of items there. Here's just some of what I've personally found, and where it was:
18.5 grams of crack cocaine - partially inserted into rectum.
14 grams of powdered cocaine - see above
1/2 pack of Newport cigarettes - rubber banded around Mr. Winkie (I kid you not...I actually got an indictment against him, too. The grand jury LOVED my testimony)
Cigarette lighters - under Mr. Winkie, partially in rectum, in between buttocks, in shoes, socks, etc.
While not my finds, I've also seen:
A cell phone - buttocks
Another phone - waistband
Handcuff key - shoe
Meth - socks, shoes, pants, etc
See, doing a search ain't fun for the people performing it, either. For those of you in Louisville, remember the article in SNITCH recently about the two officers that find all the contraband? Those two guys are on my shift, and I've learned mch from them. The article described them as seeing more booty than a porn star, or something to that effect, hehe. But, that's the truth. I can guarantee that if you put something up your butt, be it cigarettes (yep, they still smoke them), lighters, crack, whatever, I can feel it. And, that's without taking your pants off. Unless it's shoved COMPLETELY in there, I'll feel it. You may not (and probably won't) like it (I don't), but I'll search the entire area around your groin, including underneath and in between things.
For women, it's a bit different, and for obvious reasons, I don't search them at work. But, they do have their breasts searched. We give our female officer crap about that, from time to time, hehe.
Anyway, my point is, I don't NEED to do a strip search on you, to find things. The strip search only comes into play after I feel something that could be contraband, and lemme tell ya, that's worse than doing a pat-down, sometimes. I swear, I've seen more men naked this year, than most women do in their lifetime.....And that sucks.
Man, I keep going off on a tangent....Sorry about that. Basically, I just wanted to get the point across that a GOOD search will make the person being searched uncomfortable. Let's face it, if you're not gonna do a thorough search, then why bother putting on the gloves at all? If you're scared or too squeamish to touch another man's groin, then you should find another job. If you don't want this done to you, then don't get locked up. Like I said, I'm not gonna get into the TSA issue, because I simply don't care. I don't fly, I'm not likely to fly anytime in the near future, and it'd be tempting to shove something under my stuff, just to see if the screener caught it, anyway. Yeah, I'm obnoxious like that sometimes, especially when I do a better job of it, than they do.
For those who don't like being searched, my only suggestion, in a non-sarcastic tone, is to not fly. I'm aware that's not a possibility for some of you, and I understand that. In your cases, I'd suggest pushing for a momvement to allow for CCW on airlines. After watching Mythbusters, the TSA/FAA have lost the whole "depressurization" argument, haven't they?
And, for all you street guys out there:
Please, for the love of everything sacred, search your prisoners. I get tired of adding charges on people, because road cops are scared to dig around in someone's butt for a minute. And hey, I did see a cuff key in a shoe once. What if the person in question had gotten that out, and used it? Dead officer, perhaps, like the two in Florida a few years back....
cropcirclewalker
member
You fools that don't mind being humiliated and treated like a terrorist to fly.
The terrorists won! You've given up without a fight. You got what you deserve.
Take off your shoes and stand in line to get groped. Shame, Shame, Shame.
The terrorists won! You've given up without a fight. You got what you deserve.
Take off your shoes and stand in line to get groped. Shame, Shame, Shame.
Sindawe
Member
Ya know...
I'm old enough (as I'm sure some of my fellow HighRoaders are) to remember when flying commercial airlines was a pleasure and an adventure. As a child, I would get wings, playing cards and the like from the Stewards, half-way decent food on long flights, and friendly, courteious treatment from everybody.
Then came the metal detectors and carry-on baggage x-ray. We could live with those. Not overly intrusive, people were still somewhat courteous. Plastic utensils, and food barely passable for a school lunch room.
Then came the script based pop-quizes at check in. And the increasing lines for passenger screenings. People were not very friendly anymore, seemed like they felt the job was a chore and paying customers a bother. Inflight meals now a box lunch sandwich, and forget getting a vegetarian meal, even if you purchased your tickets months in advance.
Last time I flew, in Nov 2001. LONG LONG LONG lines for check in, most of the check-in stations empty. Long pointless scripts about who packed my bags, where was I going, what color is my hair, did my ancestors have relations with farm animals. Endless wait at passenger screenings, again most stations empty. Take off your shoes, take off your belt, all metal off. Stand with your arms and and look straight ahead. "Sir, why is the wand beeping around your mouth?" Maybe 'cause I have BRACES you NITWIT! Meals? HA! A few grams of stale salty peanuts and a partial can of soda (this on a 5 hour, mid-day flight that spans the lunch hour)
Then they loose my freaking luggage. No, could not tell me where it was. No the bar codes on the check tag don't help. No, we can't tell you when we will find it and get it too you.
So at this point, I'll not fly. Not 'cause I'm afraid of terrorists or high-jackers. 'Cause I know that if some TSA drone wanted to grop me up, I'd bloody their freaking nose and end up in jail. Not worth the hassle, aggrivation and expense to be treated like a burden by the airline employees and a convict by the TSA drones.
Let the airlines crash and burn (figuratively speaking), let the concourses become home to spiders, pigeons and ghosts. Let the runways crumble to dust. It was fun while it lasted...
I'm old enough (as I'm sure some of my fellow HighRoaders are) to remember when flying commercial airlines was a pleasure and an adventure. As a child, I would get wings, playing cards and the like from the Stewards, half-way decent food on long flights, and friendly, courteious treatment from everybody.
Then came the metal detectors and carry-on baggage x-ray. We could live with those. Not overly intrusive, people were still somewhat courteous. Plastic utensils, and food barely passable for a school lunch room.
Then came the script based pop-quizes at check in. And the increasing lines for passenger screenings. People were not very friendly anymore, seemed like they felt the job was a chore and paying customers a bother. Inflight meals now a box lunch sandwich, and forget getting a vegetarian meal, even if you purchased your tickets months in advance.
Last time I flew, in Nov 2001. LONG LONG LONG lines for check in, most of the check-in stations empty. Long pointless scripts about who packed my bags, where was I going, what color is my hair, did my ancestors have relations with farm animals. Endless wait at passenger screenings, again most stations empty. Take off your shoes, take off your belt, all metal off. Stand with your arms and and look straight ahead. "Sir, why is the wand beeping around your mouth?" Maybe 'cause I have BRACES you NITWIT! Meals? HA! A few grams of stale salty peanuts and a partial can of soda (this on a 5 hour, mid-day flight that spans the lunch hour)
Then they loose my freaking luggage. No, could not tell me where it was. No the bar codes on the check tag don't help. No, we can't tell you when we will find it and get it too you.
So at this point, I'll not fly. Not 'cause I'm afraid of terrorists or high-jackers. 'Cause I know that if some TSA drone wanted to grop me up, I'd bloody their freaking nose and end up in jail. Not worth the hassle, aggrivation and expense to be treated like a burden by the airline employees and a convict by the TSA drones.
Let the airlines crash and burn (figuratively speaking), let the concourses become home to spiders, pigeons and ghosts. Let the runways crumble to dust. It was fun while it lasted...
iipalindromeii
Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 5
If things were different...
You know, I think we're going about this the wrong way: saying too much, too little, any, all.
If individual airlines had to do their own screening (or make a deal for someone else to do it for them), we could let the market show for us what we consider reasonable and unreasonable. You don't want to have the hassle of security, and think that the risk is worth it? Fly X airlines. You want to feel safe from getting your breasts grabbed? Fly Y airlines.
This one-size-fits-none doesn't work so well. It insists upon the One True Security Solution: which has to be enough to satisfy the security cravings of the vocal population. Same thing with going armed on a *private* plane: some would allow it, some wouldn't. At least then there would be change that wouldn't have to satisfy every yahoo with a bullhorn.
I know the argument that a plane full of people is more than just a risk to the people, but so's a Ryder truck.
(My secret hope would be that, over time, at least one airline would go over to looking for *intent* like they do in Israel and in parts of England, and they would let the permittance of passengers to go armed take care of the rest of security. Hey, a man can dream, can't he?)
You know, I think we're going about this the wrong way: saying too much, too little, any, all.
If individual airlines had to do their own screening (or make a deal for someone else to do it for them), we could let the market show for us what we consider reasonable and unreasonable. You don't want to have the hassle of security, and think that the risk is worth it? Fly X airlines. You want to feel safe from getting your breasts grabbed? Fly Y airlines.
This one-size-fits-none doesn't work so well. It insists upon the One True Security Solution: which has to be enough to satisfy the security cravings of the vocal population. Same thing with going armed on a *private* plane: some would allow it, some wouldn't. At least then there would be change that wouldn't have to satisfy every yahoo with a bullhorn.
I know the argument that a plane full of people is more than just a risk to the people, but so's a Ryder truck.
(My secret hope would be that, over time, at least one airline would go over to looking for *intent* like they do in Israel and in parts of England, and they would let the permittance of passengers to go armed take care of the rest of security. Hey, a man can dream, can't he?)
FeebMaster
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Messages
- 275
Obviously she wasn't who she used to be before her Driver's License expired. She's lucky she wasn't driving with that Driver's License.
Sweet Land of Liberty!
CZ 75 BD
Member
Ann Coulter...
said she is now packing Zale's Jewelers gift certificates in order to save time for the screeners.
said she is now packing Zale's Jewelers gift certificates in order to save time for the screeners.
Lone_Gunman
Member
I've flown several times since 9/11 and think the screening is a joke.
I know in this day and age that "profiling" is not allowed, but in all honesty, when was the last time a plane was hi-jacked by a woman with a child?
Or a gray-haired old man wearing a Congressional Medal of Honor?
All common sense has been lost with airport screening.
The last time my wife and I flew, we flew on seperate flights. We had one bag each to check. My flight was first, and I wanted to check both bags on my flight, so I could go get them at baggage claim while I was waiting on my wife's flight to arrive. The person behind the counter told me I could not do that, I could only check my bag. I told her we were married and our stuff was packed up into both bags, some of mine was in hers, and vice versa, and that neither of them was "mine", they were both "ours". The lady became very confused by this. I don't advise playing this game with airport screeners, for fear it will blow their mind.
I know in this day and age that "profiling" is not allowed, but in all honesty, when was the last time a plane was hi-jacked by a woman with a child?
Or a gray-haired old man wearing a Congressional Medal of Honor?
All common sense has been lost with airport screening.
The last time my wife and I flew, we flew on seperate flights. We had one bag each to check. My flight was first, and I wanted to check both bags on my flight, so I could go get them at baggage claim while I was waiting on my wife's flight to arrive. The person behind the counter told me I could not do that, I could only check my bag. I told her we were married and our stuff was packed up into both bags, some of mine was in hers, and vice versa, and that neither of them was "mine", they were both "ours". The lady became very confused by this. I don't advise playing this game with airport screeners, for fear it will blow their mind.
CatsDieNow
Member
wprebeck,
While that was an interesting post, the distinction here is that I am going to Atlanta, not to prison. There is no acceptable reason to do this "good search".
I fly in 3 weeks and I am afraid that some TSA goon is going to want to frisk to me and I will have to refuse the search.
While that was an interesting post, the distinction here is that I am going to Atlanta, not to prison. There is no acceptable reason to do this "good search".
I fly in 3 weeks and I am afraid that some TSA goon is going to want to frisk to me and I will have to refuse the search.
RW_Reagan
Member
hey Archie
in regards to:
"For everyone who asks the "...how would you like..." question, answer me this: How would you like five to ten percent of the people you deal with in your jobs to have a screaming hissy fit when you attempted to perform your job?"
I'm an IT administrator, if I only have 5-10% of my users giving me a hissy fit for doing what they asked me to and not liking the results that would be a GOOD day.
in regards to:
"For everyone who asks the "...how would you like..." question, answer me this: How would you like five to ten percent of the people you deal with in your jobs to have a screaming hissy fit when you attempted to perform your job?"
I'm an IT administrator, if I only have 5-10% of my users giving me a hissy fit for doing what they asked me to and not liking the results that would be a GOOD day.
CatsDieNow
Member
riverdog,
Its a business trip. Not my money that paid for the tickets.
Its a business trip. Not my money that paid for the tickets.
GhostRider-Nine
member
Maybe I would feel just a little better about being and seeing people getting felt up, if there was just a little common since involved. This past July I had to cross the country to go to my mothers funeral. I myself was chosen for the "extra screening." Along with me was a little old lady who looked like my grandmother used to look like. We got the extra security while a young middle eastern man just walked right on into to the plane without so much as a by your leave. Yeah, me and the little old lady were the real threat. Also I might add that I had very carefully packed my carry on. It had items from my moms estate that were very dear to me. The apes took it all out, and repacked it in such a way that tape had to be wrapped around the case because they could not get it closed....and when I got home I found that one item had been damaged by them. I think the next time I have to fly I will just wear my speedo to the airport.....trust me, that would be VERY scarry.
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