AR-10 reliability questions.

[Glock22]

I have been looking into getting some kind of AR or M1A style rifle.

I have been looking at the Rock River Arms LAR-10 and it looks nice but I have heard of people having reliability problems with AR's chambered in .308 because the magazines are modified FAL or M14 magazines.

How common are these reliability problem or are they kind of like people just always talking about how .40 caliber Glock's will blow up, as in they happen much less than people say they do.

 

[Bottom Gun]

I can't tell you anything about Rock River, but I have used a dozen different magazines in my Eagle Arms .308. Most magazines were originally M14 and were modified with Armalite followers and cutouts for the magazine catch.
Every magazine has worked fine and this particular rifle has been quite reliable.

I have discovered, however, that this rifle is sensitive to bullet shape and style. Some of the blunt shapes I used in my reloads do not feed well in this rifle due to the way the feed ramp is configured.
The folks at Armalite suggested I use more pointed bullets such as the SST's or Ballistic Tips. They have been 100% reliable. Nosler partitions have worked well in this rifle too. All surplus ammo I have used has been 100% reliable as well. It works well with Lake City, South African, Australian and Portugese ammo.
I also found my reloads work best if I seat the bullet as far out as possible. Some of my reloads look funny with the cannelures out beyond the case mouth, but since I don't crimp it doesn't matter and I get sub MOA from the SST loads through this 20" stainless barrel.
I do not have a muzzle break or recoil check. I see no reason to have one on these rifles.
I used to have a second upper receiver which was identical to this one except it had a muzzle brake. It was twice as loud and not nearly as accurate as this plain barrel.

Getting back to your question, this rifle has been very reliable and is quite accurate. I even took it hunting a couple of years ago and took an elk with it.

Give one a try. I think you'll like it.

 

[TIMC]

I take all that talk about feeding problems with a grain of salt. I have personal experience with 2 AR-10's that use FAL mags and after well over 1K rounds through each I have yet to see a single hiccup. With that said it is like any other firearm it will perform to the level you maintain it.

 

[funfaler]

My understanding of the problem with the Bushmaster BAR-10, that uses FAL mags, was a weakness of the bolt. This design is an original Rock River Arms design, and what RRA is currently putting out. I really have not heard of any feeding issues, just the bolt issue. I suspect that RRA would not release the LAR-10 if they did not have the bolt issue fixed.

Good luck

 

[rbernie]

I have about a thousand rounds downrange through an Armalite AR10 (modified M14 magazines) and it's never misfed or failed to extract/eject - not once.

I normally shoot handloads that I stock with Hornady or Winchester SP bullets.

 

[waterhouse]

Like others, I can't comment on the Rock River, but my Armalite upper on an Eagle Arms lower hasn't had any reliability issues. Feeds and ejects fine, and shoots really nice groups too.

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

I have had an AR10A4B for about 5 years, and the only time I have ejection problems with it is when the bolt gets dry from an extended period of shooting. A few squirts of CLP in and around the bolt and it keeps on trucking. I love mine, and it eats everything I feed it, Port, Aussie, Commercial and handloads.

 

[camslam]

I have a question regarding

"With that said it is like any other firearm it will perform to the level you maintain it."

No firearm is perfect, and I'm not saying that Glocks are either, but I'm looking at getting a battle rifle in a .308 and the worry I have with the AR-10's are the reputation they have for problems. My Glocks have never had a problem and yes I maintain them, but if there was a time or situation where that were not possible, I'm confident they would continue to perform the way they have. Can that be said of the AR-10's?

If so, which brand would you recommend? Armalite, DPMS, Rock River???

After reading many of these threads I am leaning way towards getting a DSA FAL mostly because of the reliability issue. Any comments regarding that.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I have the DPMS LR-308 and really like it. I only have a little over 100 rounds through it and it's been 100% reliable and accurate.

The only thing that needs to be changed is the trigger. I am looking at a bunch of different options but the JP trigger is at the top right now.

To my knowledge the Rock River has not been released yet.

 

[Trojan6]

I've got a DPMS LR308 AP4. First off, accuracy has been rediculously good for a semi-auto carbine. It shoots Black Hills 168gr match at .4 to .5 MOA, five shot groups consistently. Little less than .75MOA with 165 gamekings. It flat outshoots my full-size M1A with heavy match barrel and bedded receiver out to 300 yards, haven't compared at further distances. Needless to say this was not expected.
However, there have been problems. First, the stock trigger is terrible. Order one from the factory with the Jewell trigger in it and save yourself the trouble down the road. DPMS recommended the RRA two stage trigger which did not drop in and both myself and my gunsmith did not feel comfortable filing it down. Luckily, my dealer had an armalite two stage trigger that did drop in and made a world of difference. Second, bolt travel was noticeably slow from the beginning, and despite trying all variations in the amount/type of lube used, would jam during rapid fire work every 2-4 rounds. This may have smoothed out over time and a longer break in period, but seemed to me that it was a factory defect and thus I sent the weapon back. Most importantly though, customer service from DPMS has been OUTSTANDING. We'll see if the problem is corrected when I get it back in a couple of weeks, but so far my experiences with them have been very positive and I would recommend their products. Others whom I have questioned with the same rifle did not have similar problems. Hope this helps.

 

[camslam]

Thanks for the info. I think that is what bothers me most, if I am going to spend 1K+ on a battle rifle, it sure better shoot.

Like I said, I have had no problems with my Glocks, my Ruger 10/22 is awesome, all of my Mossberg and Remington shotguns have been great, I just worry about the reliability of the AR-10 platform. It seems that most comments have said they had to tweak something, or adjust something, or get different mags, or send it back to the manufacturer to get worked on.

Something about spending that kind of dough on a rifle that needs more work just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Titan6]

I also have the LR308 AP4 from DPMS. No issues. I am so used to shooting clunky military triggers I just decided to live with it. Even so with open sights and factory ammo it shoots 3'' and smaller groups at 100 yards, off hand. I picked up a scope for it the other day and am hoping for better. I don't think you will find a 40 year old FAL off the shelf that will shoot that well.

 

[Southern Raider]

My understanding of the problem with the Bushmaster BAR-10, that uses FAL mags, was a weakness of the bolt. This design is an original Rock River Arms design, and what RRA is currently putting out. I really have not heard of any feeding issues, just the bolt issue.

BINGO! The rifle should feed fine. After all, IIRC, they deleted the bottom locking lug to get around the feeding issue with FAL mags. (They feed towards the center.) Might be the reason bolts break...

 

[camslam]

Just to add a bit of information. I wouldn't be looking at getting a kit FAL or a 40 year old FAL. I am talking about a brand new DSA Arms FAL.

That is where my question lies: comparing apples to apples (new gun to new gun) I think the consensus is I'll have better reliability with the FAL.

 

[Zak Smith]

From other threads:

Over the years I have seen many shooters attempt to campaign in 3-Gun using AR-10 pattern rifles. The vast majority of them have had reliability problems.

This is not to say there are "no" reliable AR-10s or that they cannot be made to run, however, evidence suggests that they are much more difficult to get running reliably than AR-15s.

..

The AR-10 is also more finicky for reliability than the 223/556 AR-15. It is more likely to have problems running from the box, and is more likely to need tuning to get it to run well. There are also lock-time and extraction interplays that affect accuracy and pressure in ways you don't usually see in 223/556 AR-15s.

 

[Southern Raider]

I think Zak has quoted the perfect comment here. The AR platform is 308 is a wonder to behold when working relaibly. However, my own experience and the Internet experience of others leads me to believe that they don't all work well.

 

[Titan6]

The bolt on the DPMS was redesigned. That is why you can not use FAL magazines in the Panther. The bottom notches of the chamber lock have a slope that prevents the problem with earlier AR10s. Runs like a clock.

 

[Roughneck]

AR 10 bullet feeding problem

My AR 10-338 Federal occasionally jams with a cartridge getting lodged by the bolt while
the cartridge is in a 45 degree angle, necessitating my dropping the mag, pulling
the charging handle to eject the round. On one occasion the cartridge was slightly dented.
Well, when I isolated what I thought was a problem magazine, the issue occurred again
in a different mag. Some suggest that the AR may not like the FUSION 200 grain
that has a flat nub on the tip of the bullet. Could this be the problem or is it the magazine? Comments would be most welcomed.

Thanks,

Best regards

Roughneck

 

[Fat_46]

I'll throw my $.02 in here. I use an Armalite AR10A4 in my deer hunting arsenal, and for general fun. I've learned that if I keep the moving parts wet, and replace the buffer spring every 2000 rounds she runs like a top on surplus or handloads. I've also leaned when handloading to worry less about groups when initially developing a load, and more about cycling. Once I get a powder range that throws the brass in a neat pile I start tweaking for accuracy.

 

[Titan6]

It is possible that the weapon does not like that ammo. If you still have the problem with say 165gr milsurp ammo then you do have a problem.

If you want to check thing without shooting up ammo look at your extractor spring and make sure it is still springy.

 

[briansmithwins]

One of the big problems with the AR10 is there are NO standards and NO interchangability. Mags and parts for one manufacturer's rifle just won't work on a different makers rifle.

If it's dead reliability and easy access to spares is a major concern, the FAL is hard to beat. Millions made, cheap mags, easy to find parts... BSW

 

[6.5x39]

Does anyone know anything about the Remington R-25 series and it's reliability? My assumption is that it's a Bushmaster AR-10 with a Remington badge trying to be passed off as a hunting rifle. I find it intriguing that it's offered in .243 Win and 7mm-08 as well as .308 Win.

Which makes me wonder: has an AR pattern been tried for cartridges in the 30-06 length? (Or is Remington working on the R-35 to address this market segment?)

 

[Z-Michigan]

The Remington R-25 is actually a DPMS .308 with a Remington label. The Bushmaster .308 was discontinued and production rights sold to Rock River, whose LAR-8 is basically the same thing.

As BSW noted, the big problem with .308 ARs is that no two brands are the same, and there are fairly big differences between some of the brands. Mags are expensive (except the LAR-8 using FAL mags) and parts are not as readily available.

 

[6.5x39]

As BSW noted, the big problem with .308 ARs is that no two brands are the same, and there are fairly big differences between some of the brands.

Is there a "good" reason for the lack of interchangeability in AR-10 parts? Is there no published specification of how the parts of an AR-10 interface or is it just a matter of the various manufacturers deciding to keep things just proprietary enough that you can't mix and match components?

 

[Z-Michigan]

The AR-10 was never adopted by a major military, so there is really no "mil spec" for them as there basically is for an AR-15. Each manufacturer has pretty much done their own engineering. The Armalite (of today) and Knight's designs are probably closest to a Stoner (original Armalite) AR-10, though the modern Armalite uses a different magazine design because it was introduced during the ban years and Armalite had a way to convert 20rd M14 magazines to work, but only if a slightly different shape were used. Knight's is I suppose closest in that it uses original AR-10 type magazines, which are also used by DPMS... but the DPMS design is quite different from an original AR-10 in how the receivers are made. The Bushmaster/Rock River design is also different in being designed to use FN-FAL magazines. I think there are also detail differences among all of these in a lot of the small and boring components.