AR-10 vs M-1A/M-14: Convince me…

[Chuck Dye]

My particular version of material lust leads to a slow approach to acquisition. I am getting closer to a military type .308/7.62 NATO semi-auto. My inclination is toward the full boat Fulton Armory rifle.

I would appreciate input from those who have extensive experience with both the AR-10 and M1A/M-14’s. I am particularly interested in the piston and op-rod versus direct gas impingement difference.

 

[VA27]

I'm kinda in the same boat. My issue rifle is an M14, the real deal. I'll be retiring in a few years and the dept won't let me keep it, so I need something to take its place. I've read a TON of forum threads and have narrowed my field to an M1A, PTR91 or AR10, in that order.

I had an M1A before the M14 was issued and I liked it, so it's number one on my list. The PTR91 is the H&K91 clone built in the USA and I really like the collapsable stock on it, and magazines are CHEAP! I've never seen or handled an AR10 so it's last on my short list. If it's as good as the AR15, it should be a good choice.

The only mechanical problem we've had with the M14 was a broken magazine spring. All the rest were "operator error": Gas valve turned off, gas cylinder re-installed improperly or loose (after cleaning), and my favorite:

Officer: "Can you check out my rifle? I went to qualify and I had to hand cycle it every shot."

I picked up the rifle and looked at it and asked, "What's this all over the action?"

Officer: "Um...A Coke fell out of my cup holder and landed on it. I wiped it off. You think that could be it?"

Me (field stripping rifle): "You see all this brown stuff? That's Coke syrup. Think of it as the opposite of lubrication."

Both the PTR91 and the AR10 would have been a LOT harder to clean up after an event like that. Maybe I've just answered my own question. Hmmm...

Good luck with your search.

 

[CanonNinja]

I'm in the same boat as well... I've heard both ways on AR-10s being more consistant, and the other crowd calling M1As the better bench/target gun.



Kinda funny you mention PTRs, since I'm selling/trading mine (with your favorite stock) for either one of the others. I'm stretching my legs out to 300+ yards now, and I want something I can shoot besides my .50bmg when the ammo runs out for the day.

 

[FNFiveSeven]

If they ever actually make the damn thing, this is what you want:

LRB M25.

www.lrbarms.com

there's just to many AR-10 style rifles out there, and they are no cross compatible. M1A is a standard military pattern rifle, so not only do you know it will work, but it will keep on working in the future.

The M25 looks to be the best M1A out there.

 

[Jeff White]

It really depends on what your intended use for the rifle is. If you just want a 7.62x51 military semi auto then stick with the M1A. If you want match/sniper grade accuracy without a whole lot of work to get it and keep it, then you need to look at a different platform.

One of the reasons the M21 was phased out as a sniper rifle was because of the extensive armorer support required to keep it meeting accuracy standards. My personal experience with my NM M1A is similar to the militarys. I've known military high power competitors who had two or more M14 NMs issued to them so they could make it through a season.

And the AR10 and SR25 series weapons haven't fared well in accuarcy or reliability in military use. I've heard a lot more cussing of the expensive MK11 (Knights SR25) then I have praise.

Jeff

 

[Mumbles_45]

'm stretching my legs out to 300+ yards now, and I want something I can shoot besides my .50bmg when the ammo runs out for the day.

Your PTR-91 should be more then capable of shooting out past 300 yards. I also sold my PTR-91 but because...well...I guess I just didn't like it. Too bulky, safety was just out of reach for my thumb, mag release downright sucked, charging handle was too far forward, no last shot bolt hold open, mounting optics is possible and not hard, but the end result is never an ideal setup. Puting the bolt back together is not hard with practice, but it isn't easy either. On the other hand it was probably one of the most reliable rifles I ever owned. And the price for magazines was awsome, cheaper to buy a 20 round mag then 20 rounds of ammo.

And the AR10 and SR25 series weapons haven't fared well in accuarcy or reliability in military use. I've heard a lot more cussing of the expensive MK11 (Knights SR25) then I have praise.

Well thats dissapointing. I have started saving for a long range, semi-automatic, military style, .308 to replace the not missed at all PTR, and had kind of decided on an Armalite AR-10(T) do you, or anyone else, have a better suggestion? I have an FAL carbine I love but I don't really see that platform being an ideal long range rifle. I was already aware of everything you said about the M-14 and had already decided against it because of that. And like I said I tried a G-3 clone and it wasn't my thing.

edit to add: I almost forgot. The trigger on the PTR is beyond horrible.

 

[Fingolfin]

oth the PTR91 and the AR10 would have been a LOT harder to clean up after an event like that.

Keep in mind that neither of those have the fully exposed action like the M1A does though. Spilling coke all over an AR-10 with the port door closed wouldn't hinder it much. I like the M1A a lot but having the action out in the open like that always bugged me, especially to think of shooting it in the rain or dusty enviroments. Doesn't seem to effect reliability much though I guess as it's a proven rifle on the battlefield.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I find the AR to be the best balanced and most ergonomic of the 7.62 NATO autoloaders. If I could only keep one of my rifles..............

It'd be this one.

 

[GungHo]

I will say that my friend has had a heck of a lot more issues with his Knight's SR-25 than I ever had with my Armalite AR-10... I've not had a lot of failures to feed and only failures to extract when using crappy ammo, and even then, it's not that bad.

The only thing I've had to do with it over an AR-15 is that a 10 likes running a lot wetter than a 15. If I run it dry, it will act like it wants to bind. Once it starts misbehaving, squirting with CLP does the job.

I had a DSA Austrian FN-FAL with the same issue, BTW.

 

[geekWithA.45]

I'd match it to purpose & budget.

On a budget? PTR-91, hands down.

Not on a budget?

OK, Purpose?

Uberprecision shooting? AR platform.
General purpose? M1A.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I've owned both an AR-10 and a M1A. I concluded that both were fine rifles, then I sold them both. I use an M1 Garand now, which I consider to be equally good (better in some respects, actually) but at a fraction of the price.

AR-10 and M1A are both fine rifles, each in their own way. The AR is lighter and better balanced, more accurate, and has better ergonomics. The M1A feels more solid and substantial, and has stiffer recoil, and is probably more robust under adverse conditions. I think they're both about equal in terms of general purpose field shooting and for defensive work, with the AR having a slight edge in precison/target shooting.

The one big differentiator between them is the AR's ability to handle different optics. Scopes, reflex sights, iron sights, whatever you want, the AR handles it with ease. The M14 does not.

I suppose if I had to pick one over the other I'd go with the AR, for it's superior ability to handle optics and scopes. An AR-10 with a 20" free-floated barrel, match trigger, and a high magnification scope is a long range target/precision/sniper rifle. Swap out the scope for an Eotech or an Aimpoint and that same rifle becomes a close to medium range fighting rifle. Swap out the reflex sight for some irons or a fixed 2X or 4X scope and you have a nice all-purpose hunting/field/defensive rifle. A single AR-10 with a few different sight configurations offers a degree flexibility and versatility that the M14 just can't match.

 

[rbernie]

I suppose if I had to pick one over the other I'd go with the AR, for it's superior ability to handle optics and scopes.

Hey, John - recognize it?

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I'm glad to see it has a good home!

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Remember, unless you shell out $3000 +, for an M21/M25, you are going to have to shell out some serious coin to scope your M14 style rifle - they are simply not the easiest rifle to scope, and it shows in the price of mounts and optics that work well with the platform.

Although it is not totally in your line of questioning - I do a have a little experience with this question. About a year ago, I was desirous of a accurate, long distance capable rifle (preferably in .30 cal) and my mind went first to getting an AR-10 (actually, my first thought was to get an AR-30 in .338 Lapua, but I just couldn't justify the ammo cost with my current lack of ranges beyond 200 yards).

I was thinking about the AR-10 and pricing things out - and in the end I was looking at shelling out almost 2 grand between the rifle, mount, and optics.

I scrapped the AR-10 in favor of a Savage 10FP in .300 Win Mag.

Yes it's a bolt action - and yes, it is in .300 Win Mag (which IS a military cartridge, many militaries use .300 Win Mag in Designated Marksman rifles), and I ended up spending less than $700 for the rifle, scope(Super Sniper), mount, and case (to be honest, the rifle had been fired a few times, but that was mitigated by the McM stock).

I initially scoffed at getting a bolt action, but I'm as happy with this rifle as I am damned near any of my purchases, and I feel very comfortable with the rifle (especially the magnificant trigger) and I do not at all regret getting a bolt action over a semi auto..