AR-15 ammo question

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Miss Debbie

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Hi everyone I have a couple of questions on ammo for my AR, I am going to take a carbine class at tiger valley and need some ammo. Is it true that wolf,silver bear and brown bear are not good for AR rifles? and has anyone odrered from Weidners? I an trying to decide which ammo to get this one
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8451&dir=18|830|845
or the ammo from the sportsman guide
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=504803 anyone ordered this ammo or know if its any good?
Has anyone herd of this company?
http://www.wisconsincartridge.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=28&idproduct=18
 
Wolf is good. I have shot a min of 20,000 rnds threw full auto M16 and never a problem.

There will be plenty that come on here and have shot 200 rnds threw a inferior parts gun built by a garage gunsmith and tell you Wolf dont run in their gun...the ammo is crap.

Take my advice, if your gun wont run wolf....get a good gun.
 
Uh oh. You are going to get a lot of flak (not from me) from the snobs about putting wolf through a noveske. Just a heads up.
 
Wolf and the other Russian .223 ammo tend to be dirty, inaccurate, and underpowered.

That said, I've gone thru 2k of Wolf in my superior parts guns built by a garage gunsmith with absolutely no problems. I suspect most of us can't afford enough Wolf to damage an AR.

Wolf is good for function testing as it tends to be pretty underpowered. If a AR will run with Wolf it will run with any spec 5.56 NATO ammo. I keep some Wolf around for function testing. BSW
 
So what.....Noveske or $15,000 M16, it dont matter. I know hes gonna catch hell, but these guys need to relax, less $ spent per case is more time on the range. While their going home cause their out of ammo we will still be at the range for another 2 hrs....for the same money.
 
+1 on the wolf...I've shot lots of it in 3 different ar's. The worst part is it is dirty. Plan on really cleaning afterwards. I can shoot 1k of PMC and not get any where near as much crud with 500 wolf. To me wolf has a distinct smell also.
 
I have a rule about Russian ammo. I only use it in Russian guns.

HOWEVER, think of it this way. For TRAINING, it's not a bad thing to have to clear the odd malfunction and clean frequently.

Why not call the instructors at tiger valley and ask if they have any preference of any kind?
 
Go ahead and shoot any wolf and the like. They all work fine, although they are dirty and usually underpowered.

And wideners is a good company to deal with. I ordered 1,000 rounds of .223, 300 rounds of 7.62x54r, and 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 and they had it all up to me in 3 or 4 days. This was before they got swamped of course, but whatever.
 
Personally, I feel if I'm going to spend good money on my AR-15 carbines I might as well use quality ammo. I've shot Russian ammo through my guns and had no problems but it is a personal preference in using good USA target and defensive ammo.
 
FWIW...from what i've heard. most people tend to like the silver bear a bit better than the other brands. haven't tried it yet myself.
 
Why is silver bear better than wolf, it has the lacquer coating and the new wolf uses polymer. I am told that polymer wolf is bad for rapid fire though. I will find out soon enough. I am thinking of stocking up on the Federal. I am also thinking for training, I will use 22LR Ruger and use the cheaper .22 ammo. I then can get additional testing using my better quality .223 ammo which I woudl think is more accurate. I also will put 1000 rounds of wolf polymer through my AR15s.. I got the stuff pretty cheap, around .26 /bullet and Ihear 1000rds cannot do much harm to my new guns.
 
I'd suggest running several hundred rounds of the ammo you're going use at the training before you go.

That way you partially eliminate the possibility of an ammo surprise.

congrats and have fun!
 
I'd suggest running several hundred rounds of the ammo you're going use at the training before you go.

That way you partially eliminate the possibility of an ammo surprise.

congrats and have fun!

I agree 100%. You also want to show up with a rifle that zeroed to the ammo you're going to be shooting for class.

Since all the ammo you're asking about has steel jacketed bullets, I'd make sure that the training facility does not have any restrictions about steel bullets. It would really suck to nuy a thousand rounds of ammo you can't use for class.

As mentioned, steel cased ammo results in more carbon in the chamber, so a proper cleaning with the chamber brush is more important. BSW
 
Thanks for the post's so far what about the ammo at the sportsman guide in my first post and wisconsin cartridge?
 
If you are taking a class, I would recommend that you use the ammo that you would trust the least in a self defense situation. So if Wolf is championed as the "worst ammo" (which is only true of the old laquer coated Wolf, not the new stuff), that's what I would bring to the class. The more I can make my gun malfunction during a class and learn to fix it, the more likely I am to survive a malfuction in a firefight.

Anyway, train under the worst case scenario. If you hear bad things about wolf, run wolf.
 
I've been to four formal courses for training now. Wolf was used in three of those four courses and resulted in stoppages in two of those four courses. First course used lacquered Wolf (no stoppages). Second two courses used polymer Wolf. Don't know the make of the first rifle; but the second rifle was a factory Bushmaster M4 clone.

In the first three courses, I didn't really pay much attention beyond noting who was using what. By the last course, I had already become curious about the frequent report of stoppages with Wolf and had done some tests of my own (lacquer doesn't melt off by the way) that seemed inconclusive so I spent some time with the Bushmaster trying to figure out why it wasn't working with the Wolf. I determined a couple of things.

1. The Bushmaster ran fine with every kind of brass ammo out there. Zero stoppages. Call me crazy; but if it works with every other kind of ammo and doesn't work with a particular type, I tend to assume the ammo is at fault and not the rifle.

2. The Bushmaster would run fine with Wolf as long as it didn't get hot. When we started doing relays where the rifles were getting toasty warm, stuck cases started appearing at relatively low round counts. This reminded me that the other course where I saw Wolf cause stoppages was also a high-round count course (about 800 in a day).

3. Fouling was nothing short of incredible. When we opened the rifle to check out the stuck case, there were chunks of hard, baked-on carbon the size of bolt lugs falling out. I thought he had broken a lug or some other part because I had never seen carbon that big come out of a rifle before. I also know that the rifle was clean as I had cleaned it with him the day before and cleaned it with him not 100 rounds earlier when the stuck cases started up again.

4. Same Bushmaster that wouldn't shoot Wolf shot Hornady steel cased training ammo with no problems.

On another note, my friend has an Armalite that has less than ten stoppages over 7k+ rounds with brass ammo. It fired the same batch of Wolf just fine; but choked on every single round of the Hornady. Go figure. I still don't know why Wolf tends to cause problems; but it is clear to me that steel cases, straight-walled chambers and direct impingement is not an ideal combination.

Advice-wise: If you are going to use Wolf, you need to test it before you bring it and use it the way you will use it in the course (get the rifle hot, let it sit, get it hot again). While training for malfunctions doesn't hurt, you don't get much training value out of the Wolf as the typical malfunction is a stuck case that requires tools to remove. In every case I've seen where Wolf caused a stoppage, it wasn't anything you could clear easily or quickly and training for everyone stopped while the instructor tried to clear the one rifle.
 
Of those 3 the 1st one, Privi Partisan is the only one I have experience with. I've used their 55gr FMJ for a class and had not problems. One note: A friend and I tested the 55gr, 62gr, and 75gr thru our rifles with 1/7 twist barrels. The 75gr was most accurate, folowed by the 55gr and then the 62gr. Not what we expected but that's how it shot.

The Sportman's Guide ammo sets of my alarm bells for some reason: when they talk about 'made by USA defense contractor' but don't give you any specs, like M193 or M855, I start to suspect that they are selling rejects.

The Remington sounds like it's a bit weak from the quoted velocity.

The place to always check ammo prices is here: http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.223. You can sort by total cost per round or by ammo type.

How are you getting to class? Most airlines have a restriction on the total weight of ammo you can put in your checked luggage. BSW
 
I decided to never use Wolf when CMMG (and others) said it would void the warranty. Using Wolf in a Noveske is like putting retreads on a Rolls Royce.
 
Quote:
Hi everyone I have a couple of questions on ammo for my AR, I am going to take a carbine class at tiger valley and need some ammo. Is it true that wolf,silver bear and brown bear are not good for AR rifles?

If your AR can't cycle Wolf, get a better AR. You should have no issues whatsoever, as long as you properly maintain your rifle.

However if you're looking to shoot brass, I've found that Federal is usually pretty affordable (if you can find it) and shoots great.


Quote:
Is the Remington ~ UMC green box ( L 223 R 8 B ) of 50gr JHP ammo any good? It is at Walmart in 40 rnd boxes for $26.

I shot plenty of it through my DPMS without an issue.
 
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