AR-15 Decision: A2 or Flattop/A3?

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I have a bushy 20" HBAR and a bushy 16" Superlight. Both are A3. I don't have any regrets. Neither have ever had an accessory of any kind mounted.

The idea is that if I ever want to mount something, I can. I've got NO complaints about structural rigidity. I've removed and reseated the carry handles with no loss of zero. Tighten down the screws, and that carry handle isn't going anywhere fast.

One of the best things about the AR platform is its modularity/ability to customize. I see no point in limiting that capability.
 
I like AR's the same way I like 1911's, SIMPLE. I have a DPMS Classic Sixteen, A2 with 16" barrel. Great carbine. I don't get all into hanging a bunch of stuff off of my rifle. K.I.S.S.
 
Boy, some of you make it sound like you have to buy additional sights for the A3 if you don't plan on scoping it.

The only practical difference between the A2 and the A3 is that the carry handle is removable on the latter and not the former, at least on my Bushmaster 20". Maybe they've stopped adding rear sights to the carry handle. I haven't been in the market for a standard type AR for a while now.

My suggestion is worth just about what you paid for it, but here it is: if the extra bucks aren't an issue, then go with the A3. In a word, it's more versatile. The only reason I can think of going with the A2 is if you were going to use it for some competitions that required the A2 model.

And this whole business of being stronger makes me laugh. Of course a solid surface is going to be stronger than one with a joint, all else being equal. But how many times in your life do you think you're going to need your AR to step on razor wire? :confused:
 
The flattop is much more versatile. I started with an A2 and certainly know how to use one; but the only A2 I have right now is a stripped A2 upper sitting in a box.

Even if you decide you only want to use iron sights, you still have way more options with the flattop. Want M1/M14 iron sights on your AR15? Someone makes a set that attaches to the flattop. Want fixed AR15A2 sights with no carry handle in the way? Want a folding sight that drops down when not in use? Want hooded space gun micrometer sights? Want the plain old carry handle?

With a flattop you just have flexibility that isn't there in the A2.
 
The flattop is so much more versatile:

For my farm/home defense carbine: flatop carbine with an EOtech and a KAC 300M BUIS. The BUIS is a flipup that stays out of the field of view until needed.

For a longer shot: flattop HBAR carbine with a scope. Mounted just right for a proper cheekweld and don't need the delta cheekpiece.

The only carry handle uppers I have are for the 614 and M16A2 I bought. I used the 614 upper to make a XM177-style shorty upper. The A2 sits in the safe.
 
I don't really see why, other than competition, that someone might want to get the A2 over the A3. The advanced optical sights are faster than regular iron sights, short or long distance. A3 is a more versatile platform, and if you want to change your mind about optics and accessories, then it's easy to do. Plus if you were in a home clearing SHTF situation at dusk or night, would you want to have a red dot anyways?

Well actually if I were to clear my house in the middle of the night, it'd be with my AK and a Cobra sight. :) (yeah I know it's another topic, and don't tell me about overpenetration because I don't care) :D
 
We are getting to the point of beating a dead horse here and people are going to do what they are going to do anyway.
The bottom line is with a flat top, you can use a carry handle. You can use the flat top with iron sights. You can use the flat top with an optic. You can use a flat top with a scope. You can use a flat top with night vision equipment with or without the red dot. And you can pick and choose any one of these options at will and change it back and forth in seconds from one configuration to another. Even if you don't see yourself doing any of this, you can if you want to; and most of us know from personal experience that just because that might be the farthest thing from our minds today, six months from now we might have a burning desire to do it all. If you like the look or function of the carry handle, you can have it. If you don't, you can have that also. If you own more than one AR15, you can also switch these various sighting devices back and forth between the rifles in seconds anytime you want to. You can even use these sighting devices on non-AR15s as long as the weapon has a Weaver rail. I have two lever actions equipped with the AO lever scout rail. I can remove the optic from my flat top AR and put it on the lever action if I want to. I have a Ruger PC9 equipped with a Weaver rail. I can put any optic for my AR on it if I want to and then put it back almost effortlessly. A good example of why you might want to do this: I have a variable power scope with an ARMS mount on it. If I am working up handloads or I want to see just what kind of accuracy any one of these rifles is capable of, I can mount this scope and shoot the rifle off the bench for max accuracy. Then I throw two levers to remove the scope and go back to a faster, battle type sighting system. If I get drawn for an elk tag, I can put my Aimpoint on my .444 Marlin and use it for elk, then come home and put it back on my AR.
I have an M4orgery flat top that has a carry handle mounted on it. I have never used any other sighting system on that carbine. BUT, I can if I want to.
 
ACP hosed my keyboard

quote:
1. It's classic. You'll see on AR15.com and other sites there are many members who are getting sick and tired of seeing M4'd flattop forgeries with pounds and pounds of equipment hanging off the ends -- for what? These guys aren't even in the military and they're attaching $350 Surefire lights, IR devices, forward grips, RAS, etc. What you end up with is a self defense carbine that weighs more than an M1A. I think folks who get an AR flattop figure they NEED to add all this stuff to it, since it's a flattop.

I was just researching AR scoping options. Now I need a keyboard as well + hand washing for sticky fingers.
 
Just get the A3, its only a few bucks more. That way if you ever want to put on optics or a scope you can easily. Even if you think you dont want any right now you might later.

You would be kicking yourself if you got the A2 and then wanted optics/scope.

Cant lose with the A3.
 
I'll be the lone vote for A1 sights

Check out our ongoing thread on A1 uppers: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=174656

Pic of my new upper is partway down the page.

If you're going fixed carrying handle, consider A1 over A2: the sights are sturdier, and it has the pleasant side effect of looking cooler and more streamlined. Yes, the sights aren't as quick to adjust, but they're also harder to knock out of setting, and fewer moving parts in general. It's also a couple bucks cheaper in some cases.

Not as many folks will build you an upper on an A1 receiver, but Bushmaster will. I think it was actually a couple bucks cheaper than the A2 option.

I realize that the A3 has a lot of good things going for it, but
a) Everyone has an A3 upper these days, and I'm a contrarian
b) I plan on setting a BZO on it and leaving it be
c) I plan to use the iron sights at all times. If I can afford $300 for optics, I can afford a new upper. But I don't anticipate adding optics to my main AR carbine; might possibly if I get a 24" bechrest AR down the line.

So, there's my vote for A1 sights. Anyone with me? *crickets chirping*

-MV
 
+1 on getting the A3. It gives you the opportunity to practice with irons and add glass to the flattop as an alternative.


Lex in NC
 
You'll see on AR15.com and other sites there are many members who are getting sick and tired of seeing M4'd flattop forgeries with pounds and pounds of equipment hanging off the ends -- for what?
Click to expand...
And many of those same "Arfcomers" are just keyboard commandos with no real field experience (a common situation on most gun forums).

The vast majority of fire done with those FA/Burst capable M4s is still semi auto ... in the Army, clicking the selector to FA without permission will often get you chewed on by your superiors.

A semi auto M4gery is 99% as useful as a full auto M4. Since most of us are never going to have to assist a machine gunner in either a self defense or SHTF situation, there really is little reason for full auto carbines (that said, if I could afford 'em I'd have a safe full of 'em :D ).



As for which upper to go with, I've owned two A2s and the only reason I bought the last one is because it was a killer deal. For the little extra cost the flat top is going to be more versatile.
 
ACP said:
4. The A2 sight IS tougher becasue it's integral to the receiver. No one can tell me that a thumb screwed anything is tougher than seamless aircraft grade aluminum. This was one of my main concerns, especially in a self-defense scenario. What if I drop the rifle? Bump it on a wall? It slides down the stairs with me? I have to whack someone with it, then sight and fire at a target some yards away? Is a screw-on A3 going to survive that?
Click to expand...

There is a nice picture of an ACOG on a thumb-screw TA51 mount gripping what remains of the upper receiver of an M4 after the track the M4 was tied to was hit by a 155mm IED. The explosion ripped the upper receiver (forged aluminium) in half; but the ACOG mount is still grabbing what is left of the rail.

Now, not having a lot of ACOGs or 155 shells, I can't say if that is the usual result or an anomaly; but it has always made me feel that anything that will destroy a thumbscrew mount on a 1913 rail is equally likely to destroy the rifle.
 
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Won't put a long post because everything has pretty much been said with the exception of "MHO" which is...
I own three AR's all are A-3 configuration. I have no desire for an A-2.
 
So, what's you're mission

I'm fairly new to the AR world, but i;ve shot M16's for a few years. The AR-15 is so versitile that you can make it do what you want. My advice is first of all figure out what 2 things you want to do and buy a rifle that has a lower that will perform that task for you. Then buy an additional upper that will do everything else you want. ( The wife hears: "But honey, it's only one gun, the rest is just gun parts") My advise is to buy a rifle that meets your primary mission first, then get an upper that can be accessorized.

I prefer a service rifle class competition rifle with an additional A3 upper with a 16 inch barrel. That way you're ready for competition and anything else that comes your way. The A3 should handle anything you want to add.

Bottom line, but the competition class rifle first and add to it later.

But most of all...Have fun with it.
 
I plan on getting a flattop for flexibility. I learned to shoot on the M16A2, so I am comfy with that, but I don't really like the sight pic of an A2. If I want to shoot service rifle comps I will just get an A2 upper. That's part of the beauty of the AR, its flexibility and modularity.

As for the "Carrying Handle", my 8 years on the Corps, I never saw anyone, grunt or POG carryin' it that way. The Drill Instructors forbade it, as it was just a step away from violating the four rules. M16A2s are to be carried at Port, Order, Shoulder, Present and Sling Arms, or the Tactical, Ready, and Alert carries. None of those involve the Carrying Handle. Of course civilian are free to carry it that way, I just can't see a good reason for it. Even in a SHTF situation where you might have to BO and walk a lot, the pistol grip and sling make far more useful carrying points.

That's my opinion, worth just what you paid for it.
 
ARperson said:
Boy, some of you make it sound like you have to buy additional sights for the A3 if you don't plan on scoping it.

The only practical difference between the A2 and the A3 is that the carry handle is removable on the latter and not the former, at least on my Bushmaster 20". Maybe they've stopped adding rear sights to the carry handle. I haven't been in the market for a standard type AR for a while now.
Click to expand...

The detachable carry handle is usually a 100-120 dollar option if you are customizing the rifle, doesn't come with most basic A3 models. Most people just use a BUIS like ARMS or something similar.
 
i'm not a fan of the A3. i bought my A2 because i like it. sometimes i throw a scope up on the handle and tear up targets at 100-200 yards all day. i also carry it as a patrol rifle and usually take the scope off. having used and carried a department issued flattop A3 with an EOTech, i really prefer the A2.

people can whine here all day long about which is better, but they make a lot of models because people have different tastes. pick the one you like.
 
You guys do realize that the advice in this thread was requested two years ago and somebody decided to revive it with a necropost?
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
You guys do realize that the advice in this thread was requested two years ago and somebody decided to revive it with a necropost?
Click to expand...

DAMN!!! hahaha :D Tricked!
 
Maybe so....BUT

This thread would have been nice for me to see about 4 months ago when I was going through the same questions.

It may just be relivent to someone else.
 
Since this thread is years old, I would like to point out that the flat-top uppers are now legal for CMP/NRA Service Rifle competition as long as the carry handle is attached. I believe the elevation limitation of the detachable carry handle can be fixed with a modification of the elevation shaft. In addition RRA has a carry handle with NM sights with additional elevation over the normal carry handle sights (25MOA vs. 16MOA).

Also... isn't M16A4 the correct nomenclature for a flat-topped M16?
 
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