AR-15 HBAR's

[Slater]

This is primarily regarding rifle-length (20 inch barrel) weapons, although I suppose it cold also apply to carbines as well.

AR's with full length heavy barrels are sold with competition/range use in mind (in recent years they seem to have fallen out of favor to some extent). I've been told that a standard Government-profile barrel will be just as accurate as a HBAR even at the longer ranges, even though you would think that the HBAR would offer a slight advantage in this area.

So does the HBAR offer any noticeable advantage over a slimmer barrel at extended ranges, or not enough to matter?

 

[Unka-Boo]

Of the one's I've owned over the years, I haven't noticed a difference other than weight. I've always seen HBARs as "we're too lazy ( or cheap ) to machine to the right profile, so we're going to coin a new term and people won't notice a difference".

 

[conhntr]

Not enough to matter. Barrel quality would make a bigger difference. If you want accurate get a nice stainless barrel with a 223 or hybrid chamber. Built right they will shoot .5-1" A chrome lined 556 chambered hbar is going to shoot 1-2" about the same as a government profile

 

[Welding Rod]

The only side by side comparison I can make is to the 20" Gov profiles from BCM. I have 3 of them. I also have owned several 20" RRA HBARS. I currently own 1 SS and 1 chromoly chrome-lined 20" RRA HBAR.

My RRAs shoot groups about half the size of my BCMs. Certainly enough to notice.

When both are shot in a non-floated configuration and shot alterately with a sling as well as without, the HBAR advantage increases further.

Additionally, HBARs in general tend to see less change in POI when loads are changed.

That all said, you may notice I still have 3 BCMs and only 2 RRAs. That is because for most non-match uses, the BCMs are accurate enough and it is nice not having to lug the extra HBAR weight around. Plus as a vet I enjoy some nostalgic effect from the feel of the 20" Gov profile.

But if I want to shoot small targets at long distances, or if I want the best groups on paper, I only grab the HBAR RRAs.

 

[gotigers]

A heavy barrel will not be effected by heat as much as a light weight barrel. It will also take longer to cool.

Some say a heavy barrel has better harmonics than a light profile. Doesn't deform as much thru the cycle. I guess it makes sense on a macro level.

As said above, barrel quality is more important. Things like rifling type, material and chamber. A stainless will be more accurate than a chrome lined. Cut rifling will be more accurate than button. Typically a 223 wylde chamber is better than either 223 rem or the NATO chamber.

16" S&W 4150 barrel, M4 profile, chrome lined with a NATO chamber. Free floated. It will shoot 1.5MOA with good ammo. Good for a milspec barrel. This barrel was made just before S&W started using melonite.

18" DPMS MK12 barrel, Med profile, Stainless, Nato chamber that is MOA. Darn fine barrel for the price. Free floated. I use this in 3 gun. Love it.

20" Criterion (by Fulton Armory) stainless barrel, heavy profile, 223 wylde that shoots sub MOA. Not free floated. This is an awesome barrel.

As you can see accuracy gets better with quality features and specs.

I prefer heavy or medium barrels for competition. You really only have the weapon for a few seconds thru each string/stage so weight isn't a big deal.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Just to make sure you understand, HBAR is not bull barrel. Bull barrel is over .750" dia.

The HBAR advantage over light contour is the same as bull barrel over HBAR. For one shot, 2 shots, 3 shots-doesn't really matter. But skinny barrels tend to have a wandering zero as they heat up. All else being equal, the thicker the barrel, the less it will twist and whip, resulting in greater precision, especially as temperature increases.

 

[henschman]

If you have an HBAR that shoots better than a GI profile, it is probably because the HBAR is not chrome lined (they rarely are) and the GI is.

 

[1911 guy]

Biggest advantage (for me, this is entirely personal) is a little more weight up front. I shoot offhand better with a rifle that has just enough weight to settle down nicely and not wave around. A bull barrel might be too much, a Gov't profile isn't quite enough. My opinion. Shooting from a rested position, this goes out the window and it comes down to nothing more than barrel quality and a load to match. If I'm waving around a light weight rifle, all the quality in the world wonlt make up for me not being steady.

 

[MachIVshooter]

it is probably because the HBAR is not chrome lined (they rarely are)

Once again, HBAR IS NOT bull barrel.

All Armalite standard M15s are HBAR, and are chrome lined

Rock River HBAR can all be had chrome lined.

Del Ton offers Chrome lining with HBAR tubes.

The list goes on and on.

 

[madcratebuilder]

A larger diameter barrel well always be stiffer and more accurate.

Good read from Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels, Inc.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making.htm

I have 5.56 AR barrels in GP, Hbar and Bull. The most accurate by far is the Bull barrel. A very low cost DPMS mini SASS, yet it shoots like a Noveske barrel costing 3-4X's as much. Because of stiffness?

 

[henschman]

Sure some folks have chrome lined HBAR's available, but it doesn't change the fact that most of them aren't. Chrome lining is not a desirable feature for a match rifle, which is the role that HBAR's were invented for. Also, as was said, it is for whatever reason a common profile on cheaper rifles, which usually dispense with chrome lining as well (DPMS for instance -- they used to turn HBAR carbines out like hotcakes).

 

[Slater]

I don't know about overall numbers, but all of Bushmaster's plain-Jane A2 and A3 HBAR's have chromed bores (except for stainless, obviously).

 

[MistWolf]

A heavy barrel...will also take longer to cool...

Only in the way that it takes more time to empty a 10 gallon bucket than it does a 5 gallon bucket. If both an HBar and lightweight barrel are shot until they reach 200 degrees, it will take more time to cool the HBar to ambient because it contains more heat (BTUs). However, if both are heated by shooting 200 rounds of ammo at the same rate of fire, the HBar barrel will be cooler than the lighweight barrel and will cool to ambient faster because it has more surface from which to radiate heat.

Barrel quality counts more for accuracy than profile. A stiffer barrel is usually more forgiving and is usually more consistent with different loads and over a wider range of temperatures. For an everyday AR, a lightweight profile barrel is much more practical than the HBar. But the better consistency of the heavier profile barrels is why they are the norm for Service Rifles

 

[mshootnit]

Im putting together a 20" gov profile delton this week which willl be nice and light compared to an hbar and I look forward to shooting it very much. I would be surprised if it is not at least as accurate as my old cl armalite 20" hbar. Fully loaded with optic a rifle going .750" to the gas block is over 8 lbs which doesn't sit well with me.