AR-15 Question #1: LaRue vs DD Rails

[Coronach]

Every time the issue of rail systems comes up, this is what the people in the know say:

"If you're going with a free-float rail, go with LaRue or Daniel Defense, in that order"

The consensus is that these are the best, both are good, but the LaRue is slightly better.

Here are my questions:

1. What about the Larue is better?

and

2. Is Daniel Defense Lite rail still the lightest on the market (when you use the aluminum bbl nut)(and is there a drawback to using the almuminum barrel nut)?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[rbernie]

I am actually very partial to the YHM lightweight railed forearm, because it is both very sturdy, indexes well with the railed upper, and is quite affordable. It is round instead of oval (the DD are reputed to be oval and more comfortable to small hands), but to me it matters not - especially if you wind up using a foregrip.

 

[TheLaxPlayer]

The reason most lightweight rails are "oval" is because the top rail has to be on the same plane as the rail on your upper, but they move the side and bottom rails in closer to the barrel to use less material, making it lighter.

You won't be disappointed with either LaRue or DD.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Get the LaRue for the hat and Armadillo bottle opener! (seem to be a freebie in every order )

Other than that, all I can say is that I've been extremely impressed with the optics mounts I got from LaRue. It's just so well designed and executed. I can't speak to their quadrails, since I have had no desire for quadrails.

 

[JWarren]

Mike,

I'm kinda interested in the answer to this as well.


No offense to the posters here... but...

I really haven't seen a REAL answer to what makes a LaRue stand out over a Daniel Defense railed forearm. Moreover, I haven't seen anything that would give me any indication why either of those would be better than... say... a YHM one. I've handled the YHM and I am up in the air as to what would make another one stand out over that.

Afterall, even LaRue and DD say that their forearms do not create a monolithic platform for straddling optics mounts. So it must not be that. Sturdiness? The YHM I have dealt with was plenty sturdy. Lightweight? The lightweight YHM isn't all that heavy. I don't know about the others.

I just don't get it.

SOMETHING has to justify commanding around $200 more dollars for the same thing.


-- John

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Already told ya

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

1. What about the Larue is better?

It depends on what Daniel Defense products you are comparing to the Larue. The more recent products are a lot closer to the Larue in features; but Larue products always have top notch machining and attention to detail (which while I love my DD rail, I can't say the same for - not that ugly welds affect function any).

2. Is Daniel Defense Lite rail still the lightest on the market (when you use the aluminum bbl nut)(and is there a drawback to using the almuminum barrel nut)?

The original DD rails used an aluminium barrel nut to achieve very light weight. The newer DD Lite rails are "semi-monolithic" in that you have no interupting barrel nut; but where the rail and receiver meet, one slot is double thickness and cannot be used to mount on.

DD advertises its DD Lite weight at 8.5 oz (the same installed weight of the older DD 7.0 rail with aluminium barrel nut weight); but they don't mention whether that includes the steel barrel nut (my bet is no). DD still claims to be the lightest rail though. The Larue 7.0 is 11.9oz with steel barrel nut.

DD has several different product lines now, so it helps to know which one you are looking at. The older DD rail that I have lacks the locking ring of the Larue rail and the anti-roll installation too. It also is shorter on the 3 and 9 o'clock rails (as mentioned above) to give it a more oval feel and slim the weight. This can also create issues with any accessories that depend on perfect slot depth to mount correctly (though from a practical standpoint, nobody mounts the few accessories that I am aware of problems with anywhere but the 12 and 6 rails).

 

[JWarren]

Ruger... Ok...I'll give ya that one. Pretty damn cool.

--- John

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Undecided are we?

Come now. You know the answer to this question.

 

[Soybomb]

RugerOldArmy I keep clicking the picture but it isn't getting bigger

SOMETHING has to justify commanding around $200 more dollars for the same thing.

I think it would depend on how you're planning to use them. I've seen some guys talk about their cheaper rail sets flexing, twisting, or sometimes having a problem with sizing. If you're just wanting to put a grip and a light on it, I don't think the difference is actually going to be that big. If I wanted to have optics on it or intended it for hard use or something that my life might depend on, I'd probably splurge on the higher end stuff. Plus the weight is still an issue. YHM's 12" regular rail is still considerably heavier than their competitors products.

 

[JWarren]

Soybomb...

Perhaps. I would still need a lot of convincing about the sturdiness of it. The cheaper ones that I've see seemed SOLID. If there IS a structural difference, I would think that it would have to be exposed to seriously extreme conditions to manifest itself.

And I'd hate to be carrying it when THAT extreme of conditions were met.

"Wow... look... his forearm wasn't bent at ALL when that Eighteen-wheeler ran over him 14 times. Too bad HE wasn't so lucky."

Also, it is my understanding that DD and LaRue forearms were not intended as a mounting platform for optics beyond something like a reflex sight.


-- John

 

[Coronach]

I'm still not clear on why the Larue is better, other than:

1. slightly cheaper
2. slightly better finish
3. round (as opposed to oval)
4. anti-rotation feature

Don't get me wrong, ALL of those are advantages (except maybe #3, since there is a weight and comfort tradeoff), and I am not saying the Larue is somehow inferior, but is there anything other than that?

In the same vein, how crucial is #4, and do the newer, lighter DD rails have this feature? As to which rails are being compared, I'm looking for a 9" rail, and I'm looking to get as light as possible.

Thanks for the help!

Mike

 

[Fly320s]

Coronoch,

What do you want to do with the railed forearm?

You seem to be looking to build a very light rifle. Have you looked at the Precision Reflex forearms (PRI)? http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PRI&Category_Code=AR15_M16_FRMS They don't list weight, but you can call them with questions.

 

[Coronach]

I want to build a very light rifle.

The forearm needs to be freefloat, and needs to be quad-rail so I can keep my options open as far as gadgets and doodads later. And don't be confused by the multiple questions...I'm working out about three different AR issues at once (my ultralight AR, lighting for my issued rifle at work, and finishing off an unrelated build)...but generally I'm of the mind that the lighter the AR the better.

Mike

 

[JWarren]

Mike, I can't say for certain, but I don't think anti-rotation screws are that uncommon. They are on the YHM lightweight free float railed forearm as well. And that for 1/3 the price.

-- John

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Don't get me wrong, ALL of those are advantages (except maybe #3, since there is a weight and comfort tradeoff), and I am not saying the Larue is somehow inferior, but is there anything other than that?

I forgot; but the Larue has a built in QD sling socket at the base of the rail - a nice feature if you like your sling there. DD also says you need the "DD Lite Barrel Wrench" to install; but it looks like any other free-float barrel wrench to me.

In the same vein, how crucial is #4, and do the newer, lighter DD rails have this feature? As to which rails are being compared, I'm looking for a 9" rail, and I'm looking to get as light as possible.

The new DD Lite rails are anti-roll, though they use a different approach than Larue. The DD rails also have an alignment system like the Larue. The two rails I've owned have both lacked the anti-roll feature (Knight's and DD). The Knight's was installed by me and it eventually did roll. No real effect on function at the time; but irritating until I could fix it. The DD (1st gen) was installed by MSTN and has never come loose but I would guess that has more to do with MSTN than the design since it is identical to the Knight's installation.

 

[Coronach]

They are on the YHM lightweight free float railed forearm as well. And that for 1/3 the price.

And more weight, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Mike

 

[seektruth]

There is one huge reason why I prefer DD and Larue over others. The cross section of their handguards is smaller. I just can't stand the 'fat' handguards. There is also some difference in the quality and weight. Also, Larue rails and some of DD's offerings have a built in QR sling attachment point. For most people, there is no reason to spend more on DD or Larue, unless you're like me and hate the fat handguards.

As far as DD vs Larue...its a toss up. You can't go wrong with either. DD has a more pronounced oval shape because their bottom rail is lower, but Larue still has an oval shape. I've owned both, and I like both. That said, I only have Larue now, because I prefer the feel and I like their mounting and anti-rotation design. I personally don't think the weight differences between them are enough to worry about. If weight is that much of an issue, just use standard single heat-shielded handguards.

 

[jerkface11]

There are a couple of companies that make standard free float tubes you can attach rails to. Oh and Larue throws in a pretty nice paint stirrer with their orders.

 

[Eagle1899]

Larue, or wish you did.

 

[rbernie]

They are on the YHM lightweight free float railed forearm as well. And that for 1/3 the price.

And more weight, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

For rifle-length systems:

The Larue LT15-12 is a shade over 16oz. according to their web site.

Daniel Defense advertises their 'Light Rail 12.0' to weigh in at 14oz.

YHM advertises their lightweight railed tube with anti-rotation screw to be 14.7oz in weight.

 

[taliv]

coronach, if you're building a lightweight build that's NOT a fighting gun, you may be interested in the parts list i had for a sub-4lb gun. i compromised a bit and wound up at 4.5lb (w/aimpoint and mag)


edit: the carbon fiber rifle length tube i used (no rails) weighed in at 6oz before i cut 2/3rds of it off

 

[JWarren]

For rifle-length systems:

The Larue LT15-12 is a shade over 16oz. according to their web site.

Daniel Defense advertises their 'Light Rail 12.0' to weigh in at 14oz.

YHM advertises their lightweight railed tube with anti-rotation screw to be 14.7oz in weight.

This kinda blows the weight theory out the window. YHM is lighter than Larue, and practically on line with DD.


I can accept that different dimensions can make people choose different ones. That is a valid reason.


But I still don't get statements like this:

Larue, or wish you did.

I'm getting the feeling that a new fanboy-ism is beginning around aftermarket products.


Can anyone give an account of different railed forearms with equal features showing one fail over another?


-- John

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Reading one of the online forums, one of the more respected trainers (edited to remove bad info), reported several of the YHM rails failing and advising against their use in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I do not know the nature of the failures and YHM has so many different product lines that just knowing it was a YHM rail doesn't help much.

The most common issues I see with rails are slots that aren't true 1913-spec. For example, YHM and others used to mill a lengthwise slot down the top of the cross rails on their rails. I used to know what the reasoning was behind that decision; but the short story is that if you used certain mounts built for 1913 rails, they didn't hold zero on those types of rails (because that isn't the 1913 spec).

Other issues I see at the range are stuff working loose from vibration/improper installation; but you'll see that with the older "name" rail systems too.

 

[Conqueror]

If you need light weight, why are you looking at anything other than PRI? I have a hard time believing anything produced by DD or LaRue is lighter than a thin carbon fiber tube full of holes. You can add small rail segments exactly where you need them, and not be penalized by the weight of another 7" of rail times four sides that you never mount anything on.

An SBR with a "pencil" barrel, PRI tube, and a shorty A2 stock ought to be VERY light indeed.