AR-15 reliability

gotboostvr said:
"... out of the cheapest parts I could find..."
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If the parts are in spec, should not matter how much they cost. I've assembled reliable AR15s from inexpensive parts just for fun. I don't buy from companies I never heard of before, but you can still get really affordable AR15 parts that are in spec. The only thing I don't cheap out on is the bolt carrier group.

tarosean said:
The vast majority of those threads start with “I built/assembled it”
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Yup and I created a few of my own, and even read many others that were helpful while I was on my journey to learning how to problem solve certain issues.

The great thing about the AR15 platform and Glocks is that no matter what issues you're having, there were countless others who had similar issues before you and thousands of existing threads, YouTube videos, and other resources on how to fix the problem.
 
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Styx said:
If the parts are in spec, should not matter how much they cost. I've assembled reliable AR15s from inexpensive parts just for fun. I don't buy from companies I never heard of before, but you can still get really affordable AR15 parts that are in spec. The only thing I don't cheap out on is the bolt carrier group.
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Oh I've definitely built some rifles with mystery bargin-bin parts. But it wasn't my first go-round, and if a problem popped up, those parts were the first things I'd look at. I knew I was rolling the dice, and they've worked out in my favor, thankfully.
 
I've bough ARs from BCM to GhostFirearms to Palmetto State Armory, Anderson, Radical Firearms and Bear Creek Arsenal. Never had an issue from round 1 with any if them. If you've tried at least three different brands of ammo and they all misfeed it's a mag or a firearm issue. If it's steel case ammo, try brass case. A good AR should run most brands of steel case too.
Most likely a gas block issue. If it were mine and you trust the gunsmith's work I'd just let him fix it vs the cost of shipping back to S&W.
Anyone know what S&W's policy is on warranty work when it's not the original owner?
 
I'll also +1 that Tula .223 is bottom of the barrel. No issues in other calibers but I think they use the same slow burning powder from their 7.62x39 loads in .223 which is usually set up for fast burn. The few times I've gotten out of spec ammo it's been Tula made .223 ( primers too deep) and 5.45x39 ( OAL too long).
 
wesmonster said:
I've bough ARs from BCM to GhostFirearms to Palmetto State Armory, Anderson, Radical Firearms and Bear Creek Arsenal. Never had an issue from round 1 with any if them. If you've tried at least three different brands of ammo and they all misfeed it's a mag or a firearm issue. If it's steel case ammo, try brass case. A good AR should run most brands of steel case too.
Most likely a gas block issue. If it were mine and you trust the gunsmith's work I'd just let him fix it vs the cost of shipping back to S&W.
Anyone know what S&W's policy is on warranty work when it's not the original owner?
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There would be no cost to ship it back to S&W and it's not an issue that he's not the original owner.
 
OP, your M&P was highly recommended among many others, and a family member enjoyed his until changing platforms. There are so many worthwhile factory choices that I ended up with a different brand. Nearly 700 rounds later (spreadsheet count), I'm very satisfied with that choice.

The "build it yourself" crowd still resonates with me about getting a project or two going in the future.
 
trackskippy said:
I haven't found them to be finicky at all, and thats been across the board $$ wise.

Luckily, 1911 syndrome hasnt bled into the AR's. :)
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Exactly. I have had zero issues with every AR I have ever owned and you don't have to spend thousands to have a good AR. If you want to that's great, but it isn't necessary.
 
The only AR I have miss a beat was a newly built .300 black out. Gas block leaked. It was getting better, which made me suspect gas block leak was beginning to deal with carbon. Replaced bad block, no more problem.

Check fitment of block first, them replace it.

Russellc
 
Update to the original post. I picked up the gun today from the gunsmith and took it to the range. Instead of the problem being resolved, it was worse! About every 4 rounds on average, it failed to feed and usually failed to lock back when the magazine was empty. I returned to the gunsmith, and they tested it and were able to reproduce the problem. They said that the problem was probably a combination of the facts that I was using a 10-round magazine and PMC Bronze 223 ammo. They said that 10-round mags have weak springs, and that PMC Bronze is "the weakest" ammunition and often results in failure to cycle in even the highest quality AR's. They recommended that I use 30-round mags and/or better quality ammo. Which is frustrating because I've been stockpiling PMC Bronze ammo. Does this sound right?
 
Jerkstore said:
Update to the original post. I picked up the gun today from the gunsmith and took it to the range. Instead of the problem being resolved, it was worse! About every 4 rounds on average, it failed to feed and usually failed to lock back when the magazine was empty. I returned to the gunsmith, and they tested it and were able to reproduce the problem. They said that the problem was probably a combination of the facts that I was using a 10-round magazine and PMC Bronze 223 ammo. They said that 10-round mags have weak springs, and that PMC Bronze is "the weakest" ammunition and often results in failure to cycle in even the highest quality AR's. They recommended that I use 30-round mags and/or better quality ammo. Which is frustrating because I've been stockpiling PMC Bronze ammo. Does this sound right?
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Send it back to S&W.... It would have probably been back or on the way back had you sent it in around the time you started the thread.

What work did the gunsmith say they did on it, and have you tried other magazines? Who is the manufacturer of the 10 round mags? It could be the magazine, you might need a weaker buffer and buffer spring combo to run that ammo, or as mentioned earlier in the thread, there might be an issue within the gas system. Whatever it is, it's most likely an extremely easy fix once you pin point what the issue is. I'd start by sending it back to S&W, and then taking it from there.

It's can be one or a combination of the following all of which are simple to remedy.
  1. Ammo
  2. Magazine
  3. Too heavy of a buffer and buffer spring
  4. Gas system: block, tube, bolt (gas rings and/or gas key)
You said you had 2 AR15s. That specific 10 round mag and ammo work in the other AR15?
 
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Jerkstore said:
Update to the original post. I picked up the gun today from the gunsmith and took it to the range. Instead of the problem being resolved, it was worse! About every 4 rounds on average, it failed to feed and usually failed to lock back when the magazine was empty. I returned to the gunsmith, and they tested it and were able to reproduce the problem. They said that the problem was probably a combination of the facts that I was using a 10-round magazine and PMC Bronze 223 ammo. They said that 10-round mags have weak springs, and that PMC Bronze is "the weakest" ammunition and often results in failure to cycle in even the highest quality AR's. They recommended that I use 30-round mags and/or better quality ammo. Which is frustrating because I've been stockpiling PMC Bronze ammo. Does this sound right?
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As others have said, send it back to S&W to be fixed under warranty. PMC Bronze ammo isn’t the most accurate ammo in the world, but it’s decent plinking ammo that I used to use a lot, and I’ve never had a failure of any kind with it.

When you get the rifle back, lube it thoroughly with a good oil (I use Mobil 1 5W30EP synthetic motor oil, or Lucas gun oil), and keep in mind that a properly functioning AR can run well clean and dry, or dirty and wet with oil, but can often have trouble if dirty and dry (as can an AK or mini-14, FWIW).

I occasionally shoot local carbine matches and once had a fellow shooter struggling with an AR that jammed every few shots. I noticed it was bone dry with visible carbon fouling, and I had a small oil bottle filled with Mobil 1 in my range bag, so we squirted a generous amount into the gas vent holes in the bolt carrier through the ejection port and cycled the action a few times, and it ran perfectly for the rest of the match. I saw him again at another match a couple years later, and he waved an oil bottle at me….lesson learned!
 
My experience with AR's is limited to the one AR rifle I own. To save money I purchased a lower on sale from one company and an upper on sale from another and slapped them together. This is as inexpensive as it can get for a new AR rifle and initially I had some doubts. However it's performance exceeded all my expectations. It is incredibly reliable (it has never jammed, misfired or failed to cycle) and very accurate even with inexpensive ammo. It is now my favorite range toy and may even replace my Marlin 1894 carbine as designated go to rifle in an emergency HD situation.
IMHO the malfunction you are experiencing is not due to the rifle's low price. I believe that when you identify the problem and fix it you'll be fine.
 
1. ARs like to be wet. Every guy I ever ran into at the range whose AR wouldn't cycle was running it bone dry, and hosing down the bcg with ballistol solved his problem and he went from frustrated to happy

2. 5-530 ejection sounds like the gas port is misaligned. I doubt very much that S&W is shipping their vanilla ARs with heavy springs or buffers, which is how you tune an overgassed rifle. In your case you simply aren't getting enough gas so that it will reliably cycle any ammo you feed it. Normally I shoot for 4 o'clock, but if I have a rifle that ejects to 3 o'clock I am fine with it because it will still function filthy.
 
Staking the gas key on one of quite a few rifles is all I’ve ever had to do to keep them running. Well lubed 5.56 AR’s just work, for the most part.

I did once replace the stock buffer spring with a high quality “Standard” spring which immediately stopped the rifle from working consistently. Once the stock one went back in and the enhanced one went in the garbage all was well. Given how people like to swap parts on these rifles, many stoppages are surely user error/caused.
 
When I opened it after receiving it from the gunsmith and after shooting it with the misfires mentioned above, it appeared rather dry. So I suspect that was the issue based on many of your responses and what seems now to be common sense to me after learning more about how AR's work. So I rubbed tons of gun oil on the bcg and more on the inside of the receiver where the carrier slides back and forth. It's now fully "wet". I predict that will solve it. If that doesn't work, then I'll send it to S&W because I'm not up to doing more compolicated stuff on my own. I'm grateful for the awesome responses you guys gave. It taught me a lot.
 
I have seen brand new AR-15s built by very reputable companies (Daniel Defense, and Armalite) in which both were made from quality parts, BUT assembled at the factory with piss-poor attention to detail. In the case of the DD, the hammer spring was put in backwards! Rookie mistake, but this was done at their factory! For the Armalite, the barrel nut was poorly aligned, resulting in the gas tube coming into the receiver at an angle and creating a lot of friction in the gas key. In the case of the DD, light primer strikes will be the first sign of a problem, and with the Armalite, I'm sure it will start having FTF problems in no time once things start wearing out excessively. Again, both of these examples were factory assembled!

In short, the parts themselves are usually good... but problems are created in the simple act of assembly - at the factory! After seeing this, I prefer to build my own. I built my rifle from Armalite parts, without the lazy Armalite assembly errors. Mine has 7k rounds thus far, and 0 malfunctions.
 
PMC Bronze is a lower powered 223 load. We chronographed multiple loads and it came in down around 2700 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel that was shooting Federal, Men, and Wolf Gold at around 3000.

That being said, I doubt that's your issue. That could be an issue if you were shooting a Mk18. But your S&W should be a little overgassed from the factory if I remember correctly.

The failure to lock back could be a spring issue in the magazine. It could also possibly cause the FTF if the round isnt up high enough to be propery presented for the bolt.

I'd try a different magazine. If that doesn't make the gun 100 percent reliable, send it back to S&W.
 
Just to clarify my previous post. PMC Bronze is good ammo, just loaded a bit lighter than others. You should have no issues running it in your S&W.
 
Jerkstore: That’s weird and such a shame.
I bought the same model S&W (nib) in early 2016, and the only ammo used was Russian Silver Bear 223.

500 rds. of that ammo total was used…Perfect function and the two mags were typical OEM for the gun.

ARs never grew on me so I traded it for a Hungarian “AKM” AMD-65 by FEG.
 
Best advice here is to send it back to S&W. They will fixed or replace it free of charge.

So, what's wrong with the gun? Doesn't really matter since whatever it is was happening before you acquired it. I'm sure the previous owner went through the same routes of trying to fix it with the local guys and gave up instead of sending it back like he should have in the first place. So yourself a giant favor and let the manufacturer stand up for their product.
 
Jerkstore said:
They said that 10-round mags have weak springs, and that PMC Bronze is "the weakest" ammunition and often results in failure to cycle in even the highest quality AR's. They recommended that I use 30-round mags and/or better quality ammo. Which is frustrating because I've been stockpiling PMC Bronze ammo. Does this sound right?
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No, it does not. I'd say a new gunsmith is in order or at least someone who knows what they're doing with AR's. As has been mentioned, diagnosing something like this via internet is very nearly impossible, unless we just get lucky.
 
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