AR-style in .308?

[g_one]

Hello folks... here once again to get the collective opinion of the high road, who so far have never steered me wrong.

I'm a multi-handgun owner, and have been looking lately into getting an AR-style rifle. Primarily for self-defense and plinking, but it would also serve as a backup in case I ever decided to go hunting (never been yet, but I moved up to Wisconsin last year and here's to hoping...)

Long story short, I had originally decided on the S&W M&P15 tactical model, because I like S&W's quality and because I want to put a vertical foregrip on it. However after some research and conversation with an ex-military friend, I have decided I'd much rather have something chambered in .308 instead of 5.56/.223. So even though technically if it's .308 it's not an AR-15 anymore, can you guys recommend a decent AR style rifle in .308? I'm a big fan of FNH bit the FNAR just doesn't seem practical/tactical... as I said before I want something I can put a vertical foregrip on, maybe a reflex/red dot sight. So, any suggestions? I'd prefer to stay $1,500 or under.

Thanks in advance!

 

[-v-]

Lets see...

DPMS with the LR308 series would fit the bill, starting around $1000
Armalite makes their own take on the AR-10 in .308 $1500ish range
CMMG, and LMT are also worth looking at, but are a bit pricier.
JP enterprises also makes .308 rifles, but you're in very spendy territory.

The DPMS guns are well made and are the most popular. They make good entry level rifles, and fit and finish is good. The Armalite offerings are a step up, usually better barrel choices, with equal fit and finish.

I've handled the LMT rifle before and its very light, slick, and has great fit and finish, but also in the $3,000 range!

As for putting rails and stuff on, that can be done, just you have to shop a little bit more. Unlike AR-15 rifles, there is no one common TDP they are built to, so each rifle has about 40-60% parts commonality with other companies offerings. But, the industry has stepped up, and you shouldn't have much trouble putting a rail system and any other accessories onto an AR-10-type rifle.

 

[MachIVshooter]

People who have the DPMS rifles seem to like them. Me? I'm an Armalite guy. They start at ~$1,400.

 

[henschman]

I guess you need to narrow down what you want a little more. First off, do you want a rifle, or a carbine? Do you want it to be light weight, or heavy? Do you want any particular type of barrel, like chrome lined, nitrided, stainless, etc.?

My recommendation would depend on your answer to those things.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Read this FAQ It's mainly about the ArmaLite AR-10, but it does show the main differences between the different brands. The 7.62 AR platform does not share parts like the AR15 does. Uppers, lowers, barrel nuts, bolt catch, mag release can all be proprietary to the specific brand.

Your budget well get you into a ArmaLite AR-10, a CMMG MK3, RRA LAR-8, Bushmaster OCR or DPMS LR-308.

I would recommend the new ArmaLite AR-10A that takes the SR-25 magazine. You can get .308 AR in several magazine types, but the SR-25 is the defacto standard.

ArmaLite has been manufacturing these 7.62 AR's longer than anyone. They have made engineering changes over the years to improve the design. The main criticism about the AR-10 in the past has been the proprietary M14 magazines they used. With the new AR-10A model you can use Pmags.

 

[Tex4426]

Dpms is a good one...I like RRA as well

 

[mljdeckard]

There are two main patterns of .308 AR-pattern rifles. The Armalite and DPMS/KAC.

The Armalite was marketed during the now lapsed assault weapons ban. Their strategy at the time was to make it compatible with widely available M-14 magazines, so you could have increased capacity even with the ban in place. They have a diagonal cut in the rear joint where the lower and upper meet, making them incompatible with the other pattern.

The DPMS/KAC pattern is more widely used, because the military adopted this pattern for its new DMR/sniping systems, and a lot of the accessory and mod market followed it. As stated above, the popularity of Pmags put enough pressure on DPMS to make them change to use them as well, and honestly I will be surprised if they don't also release a new version of their rifles that are compatible with the DPMS pattern.

Most of the lower parts, including the trigger, are the same as the AR-15. If you have a rifle chambered in .308, you can also use uppers in .338 Federal, 7mm08, 260 Rem, and .243. Same shell casing, magazine, and bolt face. (I wish someone would make one in 22-250, but apparently the casing taper is too extreme for reliable feeding.) The Armalites may well be great rifles, but right now, the market has followed the other pattern. You can buy a stripped lower for a few hundred dollars and build it out at your convenience.

The other downside I am finding, is that anything made for .308 rifles commands a much higher price, for no other reason I can discern than they can get it.

 

[g_one]

Thanks for the advice so far guys, I'm going to go check out the websites for DPMS and Armalite now.

I guess you need to narrow down what you want a little more. First off, do you want a rifle, or a carbine? Do you want it to be light weight, or heavy? Do you want any particular type of barrel, like chrome lined, nitrided, stainless, etc.?

Good question, thanks. 16" or 18" bbl is in the range I'm looking for, 20 is too long for what I'm getting it for. Weight isn't too much of an issue, something that will handle the .308 recoil is nice but I want to be able to carry it. As for barrel - I don't know those things affect performance (if at all) but I'm looking for longevity.

 

[navajo]

.308

Owned 5 Armalite AR 10s. Still have 2. Surperb performance from all.

 

[brnmuenchow]

A little on the pricey side but check out Knights Armament and LaRue Tactical for their AR-10 (.308 Win.). I am a big believer in you get what you pay for, I am sure there are less expensive good quality AR-10's out... you don't want to regret your purchase if you can help it, and most AR-10's can get expensive. Also, don't get cheap on the optics... alway's a bad idea.

 

[sansone]

People who have the DPMS rifles seem to like them. Me? I'm an Armalite guy. They start at ~$1,400.

+1..
if you handle both, side by side, you will choose armalite

 

[TonyAngel]

I'll play devil's advocate. Relative to AR-15s, their .308 brethren are big, bulky and heavy. I could get by with one for still hunting, but if I was going to be humping it, I might look for something else.

If you've never handled one, you should before you order one. It may be what you want and it may not. Really, you are trying to fill two roles. You want an AR and a backup hunting rifle. For the cost of an AR in .308, you could buy both a nice AR in 5.56 AND a bolt action hunting rifle.

 

[mljdeckard]

I can't deny they are heavy. To build one to hunt with that is in the same neigborhood as most hunting rifles, you will need to strip it way down. The .260 I am building will probably be 12-13 lbs.

 

[-v-]

For longevity, Anything other then untreated CMV barrels will have a longer life. Stainless barrels tend to edge into better accuracy over barrel life, chrome into better barrel life over accuracy, Nitride seem to range anywhere from better in accuracy then stainless and better life then chrome, to just the middle ground between chrome and stainless. That is a topic that has been much debated, but I doubt anyone would say they are worse then white steel barrels.

Weight-wise, I'll chime that my 16" LR308 is about a pound or so heavier then my AR-15 (Noveske 18" SS), but nothing earth shattering. Around 10lb with a 1-4x scope and a full 20 round mag. Shorter barrels also tend to fair better with heavy grain ammo.

As for what is best for you? If this is going to be a hunting/plinking gun, then a LaRue OBR or a LMT will be waaay overkill. You don't buy a Porsche to pick up groceries, after all.

 

[GunnerShotz]

For the cost of an AR in .308, you could buy both a nice AR in 5.56 AND a bolt action hunting rifle.

This is what I concluded myself when considering the merits of getting a .308 in the AR platform. Sure, I want one But I decided my own needs and applications would be better served by the two rifles as Tony suggests.

 

[C0untZer0]

There are so many good .308 rifles out there, I don't know why you would want to fire the .308 from the AR platform, unless you just just love the look of it.

 

[TonyAngel]

OK, I'll hop the fence now and say that owning/shooting a .308 AR isn't really economical, considering how much bolt action you can get for that much money, BUT they sure are fun to shoot.

 

[mljdeckard]

Count, one of the reasons for me, is the fun of building it myself. And expanding into sister cartridges as needed.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Relative to AR-15s, their .308 brethren are big, bulky and heavy.

The receiver is the only dimension that changes. And they are heavier, but not grossly overweight, unless you start piling crap on them; The standard Armalite AR-10A4 carbine weighs less than 8 pounds.

There are so many good .308 rifles out there, I don't know why you would want to fire the .308 from the AR platform, unless you just just love the look of it.

Well, in the semi-auto world, they're the thing to beat, and no other design has. I've played with just about every .308 autoloader extant, and would choose the AR over all of them, time and time again. It is the lightest, save for the SCAR heavy (same weight), which has a sharper recoil impulse and a reciprocating bolt handle that will bite you sooner or later. The M1A is a nice rifle, but a little heavier and not as accurate unless you spend big bucks. The FAL and G3 are also a lot of fun, but are both heavier, less accurate and less ergonomic than the AR-10. The FNAR is a nose heavy pig.

About the only rifle I can't rate based on first-hand experience is the Kel-Tec RFB. Price and weight are comparable to AR-10 carbines, we'll see how accuracy, reliability and durability are. It certainly is one of the most interesting .308's to come out in my lifetime, and I am excited to play with it. Still, something tells me I wouldn't trade my AR-10A2C for one.



Great for hunting:



And not bad accuracy for a 16" pencil barrel. Handloaded Hornady 150 gr. FMJ-BT, 41.5 grs. WC844, CCI 200, mixed headstamp military brass, 2.690" COAL. 2,540 FPS avg. @ 15'. Fired standing, with front rest, both elbows rested, 118 yards, 10 shots, 1.86":



Sandbagged front and rear, it'll print 5-shot groups half that size. I just don't have any to show a picture of at present.

 

[TonyAngel]

I had no idea that you could put a .308 on that kind of diet. I'll just take that as food for thought.

 

[Owen Sparks]

.308 AR's are heavy but the way they are configured most of the weight is between your two hands so it does not feel as heavy. I would avoid barrels shorter than 20 inches.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I love my AR10s, own several, Armalites most, got me a new Bushmaster 308 ORC, cant ever have too many (I know big brother is monitoring). election time will skyrocket prices.

 

[g_one]

Thanks again for all the input thus far.

To respond to all the input regarding why 308 in AR, or just get two - this is probably going to be my only rifle purchase for at least the next three years (that's when I'll be building a house in a more rural area with some real space to plink instead of living in the outskirts-of-a-major-city that I live in now), so 5.56 would probably suffice just fine. But if I do end up against a bear while on a camping trip to northern Wisconsin, or if I finally make some friends that are the hunting type, I want a gun that will will both purposes.

I try not to go back and forth too much. Originally I was locked in to the 5.56/.223 chambering but I do believe in the possibility of a ****-hit-the-fan scenario where defending against rioters and/or a turncoat gov't may become necessary in the not-too-distant future. And if I'm only going to have one round to set my territory with, I want it to be something as common as the 223/308 but with the power and range that only the 308 can provide (at least if you're only comparing those two rounds specifically)

 

[Auto426]

Well, it will certainly be out of your budget, especially since its new and the supply isn't there yet, but there is always Colt's new LE901. I believe it uses a new magazine design that doesn't fit any other .308 AR, but Magpul is making them for Colt so they shouldn't be too hard to get and shouldn't be too expensive either.

It has a unique ability among .308 AR's in that it can also run mil-spec AR-15 uppers using an included mag-well adapter. That means you can buy this gun, then later on down the road buy a cheap AR-15 upper and be able to shoot both 5.56 and .308 (as well as any other caliber that can fit in either upper).

 

[meanmrmustard]

The receiver is the only dimension that changes. And they are heavier, but not grossly overweight, unless you start piling crap on them; The standard Armalite AR-10A4 carbine weighs less than 8 pounds.



Well, in the semi-auto world, they're the thing to beat, and no other design has. I've played with just about every .308 autoloader extant, and would choose the AR over all of them, time and time again. It is the lightest, save for the SCAR heavy (same weight), which has a sharper recoil impulse and a reciprocating bolt handle that will bite you sooner or later. The M1A is a nice rifle, but a little heavier and not as accurate unless you spend big bucks. The FAL and G3 are also a lot of fun, but are both heavier, less accurate and less ergonomic than the AR-10. The FNAR is a nose heavy pig.

About the only rifle I can't rate based on first-hand experience is the Kel-Tec RFB. Price and weight are comparable to AR-10 carbines, we'll see how accuracy, reliability and durability are. It certainly is one of the most interesting .308's to come out in my lifetime, and I am excited to play with it. Still, something tells me I wouldn't trade my AR-10A2C for one.



Great for hunting:



And not bad accuracy for a 16" pencil barrel. Handloaded Hornady 150 gr. FMJ-BT, 41.5 grs. WC844, CCI 200, mixed headstamp military brass, 2.690" COAL. 2,540 FPS avg. @ 15'. Fired standing, with front rest, both elbows rested, 118 yards, 10 shots, 1.86":



Sandbagged front and rear, it'll print 5-shot groups half that size. I just don't have any to show a picture of at present.

I'm with this dude, only cuz the Armalites is the only AR-10 I've fired. That makes my opinion worthless, but it was a hoot to shoot nonetheless.