AR Trigger Upgrades, Worth it?

[Big Bad Bob]

I run a standard mil-spec trigger, it works, its not overly heavy and feels pretty crisp.

What do you think about the high priced "drop ins" like Timney or Gieselle Triggers for ARs?, are they worth the price? What application are they best suited for?

 

[Robert]

are they worth the price?

Yes.

its not overly heavy and feels pretty crisp.

Most, not all, factory AR triggers are somewhere in the 7 to 10 lbs of pull area.

What application are they best suited for?

Depends on what type of shooting you do most. High Power shooter like a nice 2 stage trigger while some of the 3 gun guys I know like a single stage trigger. I tend to lean towards the single stage trigger. If i had the money the Gieselle triggers are hard to beat, but the JP and AR Gold triggers are pretty dang good too. For my money I'd get this JP:
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPFC-1

If you only shoot every now and then, then the upgrade may not be worth it. If you plan on competing or just really want to change the weak point on the AR then they are well worth it.

 

[sansone]

no, not worth the money. Anybody handy with simple tools and an understanding of how the mechanism functions can achieve desired results.

sorry gus, just my 2 cents

 

[gshipps]

Google " 15 minute trigger job" and "50 cent trigger job". I did them with good results. I would not do them to a real nice rifle but mine is just a generic kit build.

 

[benzy2]

If you've felt a good two stage trigger you see you can't achieve the same thing with a stone and a cut spring.

I personally would rather buy a decent trigger from a reputable source than mess with it myself. I've seen the fixtures to cut the angles properly and I've seen what can happen if you don't use them and do it by eye. The fixtures cost as much as a trigger so doing a single one isn't worth the investment when you could have a warrantied and known quality part.

Some aftermarket triggers give you little benefit, but the better triggers are worth the price. When you try a Geiselle or an ATC trigger you see what a difference there is from even a moderately good single stage to a top tier two stage. Not that a 2 stage is right for every type of shooting, but it is more appropriate for how I shoot.

 

[taliv]

i don't recommend doing your own 'trigger job' because of the obvious liability. it's not that there's anything actually wrong with it, but the perception of 'hair triggers' doesn't play well in most circles.

second but no less important, is the long history of people sanding through the surface hardening to achieve a crisp trigger that day, but that quickly wears from then and becomes dangerous once it starts double-firing.

the real question is whether you need or want a light trigger. for most people, i think that answer is probably 'no'.

 

[Z-Michigan]

What benzy and taliv said.

I have several Geissele triggers and love them. However, do you NEED one? Only if you are a fairly skilled shooter and the GI trigger is holding you back. That is true for some people, not for others. Some pros shoot very well with GI triggers, and a $200 trigger won't create or substitute for skill. But if you have the skill and find that the GI trigger is causing you issues, then it is completely worth it.

BTW, best deal around right now is the Geissele S2S. $125 gets you the same trigger pull as the well proven SSA, just with some minor cost cutting that still results in a nicer and more durable trigger than the vast majority of other options. (The SSA series is absolutely bombproof and proven in combat.)

 

[AR-15 Rep]

Best idea is to tinker with your standard trigger, springs only... lighten it up a little and see if you like the results. If it improves your groups and you want to spend the money, a two stage trigger will do the trick. My theory has been, you could mount the hubble on your rifle and the only thing it will improve is showing you where you missed...

 

[TonyAngel]

Getting a good trigger is worth it. I prefer the Geissele SSA-E triggers. They are bullet proof. You can try a DIY trigger job involving the removal of material and/or going with lighter springs, but do so at your own peril. Some DIY trigger jobs work well and for a long time. Most DIY trigger jobs are on a count down clock that starts with the first round you fire with it. It may last 10,000 rounds or 100, but if you went through the hardened surface, it will fail at some point. Most that I've seen fail do so at around the 2500 round mark.

 

[gshipps]

Doing mine I did not sand or file or grind anything. The only surface treatment was a scotch pad. All thats gonna do is put a little wear on it. Spring and travel adjustments are all that's really done. Can be undone very easy. Or if you mess it up I guess you'll be buying one. (Smiley face.)

 

[taliv]

i'm not saying all DIY trigger jobs are bad, but hang out in a gun repair shop for a week and see what folks bring through the door for you fix after they botched it up... odds aren't good

and for me, a good trigger is definitely worth it. not because i shoot better or worse than anyone else, but because it helps me shoot better.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I've done a lot of AR trigger jobs - changing springs, overtravel and takeup screws, cutting down hammers, even reshaping and rehardening the sear face.

None of these trigger jobs can even approach the JP or ARGold triggers I use now.

-C

 

[cougar1717]

the real question is whether you need or want a light trigger. for most people, i think that answer is probably 'no'.

I would have to agree. What we're talking about here is being a good enough shot that the trigger is what is holding you back. I could see a person getting to that point if they're in competition - whether that is needing a lighter hammer so that the lock time is faster or trying to get even more accuracy out of premium or reloaded ammo. That would be legitamate.

The converse is that if you're thinking that an expensive trigger will make you a better shot with cheap FMJBT ammo when you go plinking with your friends, I think it's a waste. At that point, shooting fundamentals are more important than having better equipment.

 

[dprice3844444]

if you shoot somebody,accidental discharge,full auto,etc., with a gun with a home doctored trigger,state atty will have your ass for lunch.buying a gisselle trigger,or others,diverts the liability to the trigger manufacturer,

 

[tahunua001]

I know I'm not a terrible shot but with GI triggers I usually just barely make qual with M4s...that said I just bought a RRA 2 stage for my AR at home.

 

[Red Cent]

If you DO know what you are doing you can get a very good trigger. Mine is 3#s, no creep. Did not stone or file. Dremel pad polish and used the set screw. Probably a few thousand rounds now and I ain't shot nobody yet. Lyman digital has always said 3 #s.

If I ever build a "benchrest" AR, then maybe a drop in.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I've polished the mil-spec sear with a honing stone on all my ARs with superb results. With no more than a half dozen LIGHT passes on a honing stone I've polished out machining imperfections and produced nice crisp triggers without affecting trigger pull weight.

The way I shoot my ARs I have no need for an aftermarket trigger. I just need a crisp trigger and I'm very satisfied with my handiwork.

 

[JustinJ]

if you shoot somebody,accidental discharge,full auto,etc., with a gun with a home doctored trigger,state atty will have your ass for lunch.buying a gisselle trigger,or others,diverts the liability to the trigger manufacturer,

Can you cite any cases in which an aftermarket manufacturer has been successfully sued because of a light trigger they produced being used in an accidental discharge?

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah, let's leave the legal arguments out of this. We don't want anyone being misled or anything.

 

[cfullgraf]

I prefer two stage triggers in my ARs. Many of them have a Frank White trigger, particularly my Compass Lake Service Rifle match rifle.

I recently bought a Geissele trigger and it has performed flawlessly. I have another on the shelf for the next build.

i set all mine to 4.5-5.0 lb.

I think it is worth upgrading triggers. I got a box full of mil spec trigger parts.

 

[Masterartisan]

I vote yes!

I’m sure all of the individuals who have responded before me have much more experience than I do. With that said I believe it is a combination of factors, which includes the psychological ones as well. I know that when I am building fine furniture I feel so much better and my attention to detail is greater when I know I am holding a fine quality tool in my hand. The same thing happens to me when I am holding my favorite AR. It is a beauty that operates flawlessly and my shooting has improved dramatically. Is it the better quality ammunition I now shoot? Is the Geissele trigger? The Noveske barrel? I think it is a combination of all of the above. I am a big fan of saving my money, doing extensive research and then buying the best. That strategy has never failed me and I’m not sorry for the decisions I’ve made. So, my vote is buy the best trigger available or have the most competent gunsmith around work on yours or start learning all you can about working with metal, triggers and tools and buy some old triggers and begin to teach yourself to become a master with triggers and work on your own. By the way, I am in the process (saving up money) of putting Geissele triggers in all of my ARs…they are that wonderful….so smooth with a nice crisp break.

 

[451 Detonics]

no, not worth the money. Anybody handy with simple tools and an understanding of how the mechanism functions can achieve desired results.

I disagree. Without some extremely radical re-engineering you will never get the lack of pre-travel, over-travel and short resets of the aftermarket triggers. For the average spray and pray blaster at the range it wouldn't make a difference but to a target shooter, varmint shooter, or competitor it makes a big difference. My 300 Whisper not only has an excellent trigger but it has a set trigger as well for long range precision. That trigger was done by William's Trigger Specialties btw.

Almost all of the AR I currently shoot have Timney triggers in them but after trying an American Gold that is what will go into my next build.

 

[Zak Smith]

A stock trigger cannot approach the level of the original JP single stage trigger. When installed by JP or another person who knows how to do it right, it will be reliable for the long term, and provide a crisp, short pull and reset. I have been using them since 2003.

 

[RC20]

I have fired the ARs and their triggers suck (standard AR triggers). I dislike the ergonomics of the ung as well (and yes I own one), but compared to an XCR they suck.

That said, I also got to shoot an AR with a Giesele trigger and compare it to my RRA two stage Match in Chrome (and he got to shoot mine). I am not impressed.

Upshot was he dumped the Gielsele and bought the chrome two state RRA in chrome.

I also had a Bill Springfield trigger job in an MP15-22. Piece of junk. Do it yourself triggers are dangerous. Mass chop jobs like he does are as bad or worse.

RRA two stage match in chrome is a great trigger at a far better price than the Gieslel and gives you a two stage keeping the safer nature of the thing. I put one on the 15-22 in non chrome, good but I don't think as nice as the chrome (15-22 gone so I can't compare side by side)

Frankly unless you are shooting 1000 yard matches, I don't think you need or benefit from anything more than the RRA trigger. I got mine with the gun as part of the package, but yes its well worth the $125 or so you pay for it after market.

The rest, not worth it for what we normally do

 

[TonyAngel]

OK, just saying that a Rock River two stage is better than a Geissele is like saying that a Ford Mustang GT is better than a Chevy. I will concede that a Rock River two stage, whether chrome or not, "feels" better than, say, a Geissele SSA or SSA-E in terms of trigger pull crispness and weight; but the SSA and SSA-E were designed to be what they are, a service grade trigger with a good pull and relatively heavy pull weight.

Now, if you want to compare the Rock River to one of the Geissele Hi Speed models, that's a different story. The Rock Rivers don't come close in terms of "feel."

Don't get me wrong. For the price, the RRA is a good budget, "jack of all trades" two stage; but for a service/all purpose type of rifle, I found the pull too light and for precision shooting, there are better options, if you're willing to pay for them.

On a side note, I'm glad that RRA has a chrome option. It might do something about the failure rate of the triggers.