AR trigger suggestions.

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JRWhit

JRWhit

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Hey all,
I've been familiarizing myself with the AR platform recently and have spent enough time to recognize what I could benefit from.

The most recognizable need for upgrade is the combat trigger.
My AR is a small pin. I'm looking for a trigger best suited for a balance between bench rest and run & gun.

Suggestions?
 
What's your price range? Geissele has a good lineup. For the same money you can get a few hundred rounds to practice. Depends on your approach.
 
You mention combat trigger, then bench rest and fun & gun.

For defense, I wouldn't want a trigger less than 4lbs. From the $45 ALG defense to a Giessele SSA, >$200.

Bench, if I were building now: I would go with a Giessele SSA-e, >$200, or another good two stage, 2lbs-3lbs.

for run & gun, I like a single stage around 3lbs. I run a (3 gun) a Timney 3lb, <$200. Very clean break, no extra travel and very short reset. Another good option is the Giessele S3G, <$200.

edit: for price range, a good trigger will cost $150 plus. Under that range, I would stick with a milspec trigger, including ALG Defense. I haven't found any sub $150 triggers that were worth the extra money. CMMG and Rock River 2 stage NM are ok, but I would spend the extra and get a Giessele.
 
THE one major component of most high end triggers is a slack adjustment screw to keep all the unnecessary creep out of the trigger on reset. If the trigger doesn't have to scrape it's way to release the sear, it's a significant improvement.

I did exactly that with a lower which came already equipped with one, topped it off with a GI LPK, and it's shoots another tier better in terms of trigger pull. I will either do the same with my pistol build or get the ALG.

It's not rocket science and we don't have to spend hundreds to improve it. As for any field use with the AR, the standard is 6 - six - pounds, which has been tested and proven around the world by other makers as the minimum necessary for use outdoors in field conditions. Live rounds, vegetation underfoot, and working in close proximity with other team members isn't a place for square range target triggers with low pull weights. In point of fact, a good trigger with clean break isn't determined by pull weight, and you can shoot to a national championship with a 10 setting. Mas Ayoob did it with a NY Glock.

Set the precise working conditions this gun needs to perform and follow those requirements, don't start trading off performance for race gun features or capacity beyond what you need. It's no different than "improving" the family car, huge off road tires and dual quad carbs aren't going to help it, they are going to make it worse. If your goal is run-n-gun, that is movement with a live round chambered, safety is more important than a bench rest trigger that is never fired off a table.

No argument the AR trigger needs help, but they sell some things because they can, not because we really need them. $400 trigger? We are approaching being able to buy the entire gun for that kind of money.
 
I have two different types of triggers:

1. Geissele SSA-E triggers, which are very nice 2-stage triggers with the final pull being in (I think I remember) the 3.5# range. Very nice indeed.

2. I have a "HiperTouch" trigger made by Hiperfire (see Brownell's). It's a single stage trigger with a little different design. You can change the pull weight by changing the springs. It comes with 3 sets of springs. It is also very nice, but it is single stage. This is used only on a primarily bench rifle with a scope, off sandbags.

My opinion: I prefer a 2-stage trigger, and the Geissele SSA-E triggers that I have (3 of them) are on-par with the lightest spring settings of the Hiperfire trigger. They're just non-adjustable. I would get another Giessele and never look back. Wonderful triggers. Drop them in and go shooting.
 
Sorry, when a said combat trigger I was referring to the factory mill spec.

As far as the balance between bench resting and 3 gun style competing, the rifle would primarily be for competing.

As far as trigger pull I was thinking 4lb was as light as I would want to go.



Is the ALG the one that Geissele builds for them?
 
JRWhit said:
Is the ALG the one that Geissele builds for them?
Click to expand...

ALG = Amy Lynn Geissele. Geissele's wife started a sister company making tuned "standard" FCGs. So yes, Geissele made them, just not the Geissele you are talking about :). The ACT is made to tighter tolerances than mil-spec, and nickel plated for it's self-lubricating propeties.

The trigger will be about 6lbs pull, right about the same as a good milspec.

If you are making a serious competition rifle, you probably want to start off by spending $200+ for a competition trigger. The SSA-E comes to mind...
 
I've used stock FCG's along with the ALG and a Geissele SSA-E. Some stock triggers are quite good, but none of the ones I've actually owned were. Honestly, I don't find the ALG a whole lot better. I kept the one I have to put in a build eventually for a back-up rifle, but I don't think I'll buy one again. It's not low quality or anything, but it's basically just a stock trigger with better QC. The SSA-E or something similar is a real improvement, but they're pricey.
 
if you're going to replace the trigger anyway. I recommend trying to mod your own first. run the set screw up through the grip to take out a lot of creep, clip a hammer spring, and you might be surprised with what you have. if you don't like it, buy the trigger you were going to anyway, and all you're out is a 50 cent set screw and a little time.
 
When using the ALG trigger (either of them) you get a nice pull, especially with JP reduced power trigger spring set for an extra $10-$15.
 
The ALG is a nice trigger for the money, mine's nowhere close to 6lbs.
The Rock River National Match trigger is pretty nice for the money.
You can spend a lot more for marginally better....
 
Entry level price:

Rock River 2 Stage.

Willing to spend the money:

Anything from Geissele Automatics

Avoid Timney, and frankly, I'm getting cold on JP at this point, too.
 
Spendy, but if you can make it all the way through this video, you'll probably find yourself needing one of each...

 
Might have to try the reduced power trigger spring with my ALG. As I said, it's not "bad" - it just doesn't seem appreciably better to me than a good stock trigger. Those themselves can be hard to come by though...
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'm gonna give the ALG a try and if it doesn't quite cut it as is, try a spring kit.
The Geissele's triggers are very tempting, I appreciate very much that he took the time to put that video together. Very informative, but with the rifle I currently have, almost half the value of the gun would be in the trigger.
I'll save the Geissele for a dedicated bench gun when I know enough about what suites me in an AR to put some money in a quality build. Thanks all.
 
One issue with reduced weight springs is the way the Stoner designed trigger works. If you attempt reduce the trigger pull weight with a lighter spring, it directly affects how much energy is imparted to the hammer. And that means you could tune it down to the point where light primer strikes won't fire milspec ammo.

Some think the Stoner team did it that way so Joe Grunt tinkering with his issue weapon would be at a loss to "improve" it. And get found out. With softer civilian primers, it takes a lot more to find the low end of pull as they are more sensitive.

The AR is a systems design - it's built around an ammunition specification, which sets the the minimum necessary pressure to fire the primer, and the gas pressure which results from the tightly controlled bullet weight and grade of powder then works in a very narrow window to operate the action reliably.

So, the M4 and M16 actually have a very high rate of mean rounds to failure, where as the mass produced guns sold on the open market are more often tuned to the cheaper grades of ammo that have varying loads and bullet weights. They run a little overgassed on the higher end tactical stuff, and those who are actually honest about being "milspec" are up front about them malfunctioning with cheap white box and import underloaded fodder.

Since the best ammo and most reliable operation at the lowest cost is using military surplus with it's higher operating pressures and hard primers, be careful jumping into low power springs just to reduce the trigger pressure a pound or two. Having repeated malfunctions in a match due to poor tuning of a trigger that won't pop caps will have a negative impact on your standings.

And your wallet as you band aid a solution with a $100 charging handle, when the real cause was a light hammer spring. No different than running a high performance car on 85 octane gas and having it run poorly - yet I get people into my store every day who don't see the connection. You can't get top tier performance on cheap gas or a poor substandard ignition system.

Frankly, what weight the springs are on the gas pedal isn't a major subject of discussion on car forums. If anything a race car is required to shut the throttles no matter what. But light target rifle triggers seem to be the hot tip to drag out into the field or over rough ground in a shoot - move exercise.

Be careful what you ask for, the industry is full of "solutions" after the first wrong decision is made.
 
Why? I've had several Timney in ARs for years. They have all been flawless.
Click to expand...

I've seen a couple of them die, and heard stories of other people having them go dead.

Back when Sabre Defence was still a company, some of their higher-end 3 gun rifles had Timney triggers in them and the rifles' reputations suffered as a result of the triggers going dead.

Also, I've heard their customer service is not very good.

That said, it may have been a temporary QC issue or the like.
 
to Justin: yeah, every company has bad QC runs every now and then. Plus, mine might be just one of the good ones. LOL.

I like my Timney, but If I were building a 3 gun AR now, I would go with Geissele S3G. I like that the S3G is multiple parts like a milspec trigger and there is no small set screws to snug against the pins.

To the OP: I think you on the right track going with ALG Defense for your purposes.
 
Tirod said:
One issue with reduced weight springs is the way the Stoner designed trigger works. If you attempt reduce the trigger pull weight with a lighter spring, it directly affects how much energy is imparted to the hammer. And that means you could tune it down to the point where light primer strikes won't fire milspec ammo...

...Be careful what you ask for, the industry is full of "solutions" after the first wrong decision is made.
Click to expand...

These are two very well made points. A light trigger is not always a desirable trigger. A heavy, crisp, smooth trigger with little backlash that always ignites the primer is far better than a light trigger that feels like you're dragging it through a pile of gravel, or a light crisp trigger that might ignite the primer.

Boy Howdy, are there some terrible firearms accessories! No matter how the ads spin the virtues of some of the stuff out there, many accessories are nothing more than a gadget designed to separate shooters from their hard earned cash and take up valuable space in the junk drawer
 
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