Ar15 long range decision

[mohunter55]

I am looking to buy another ar15. I already own a bushmaster patrolmans m4 type rifle. I am looking for something with a stainless barrel. The brands im looking at are the Rock River Arms Varmint a4 in a 20" or 24" barrel, Stag Arms model 6 with the 24" barrel. I understand RRA uses a Wylde chamber and stag uses a 5.56, I looked at DPMS and Remington, but it looks like all their barrels are .223 Rem and I would like to be able to shoot 5.56 as well as .223, so I'm a bit undecided on these 2. What I'd like to know is which company you guys would go with and which barrel length and which chambering?

Almost forgot, the purpose will be for Target shooting with my reloads (I like to experiment) and coyote hunting.

Thanks in advance

 

[mohunter55]

also, I need to mention that price does matter. I am looking to only spend 1000 bucks, so the Remington might be a bit out of my price range. Please do not suggest any of the more expensive brands, as I have no desire to even consider them.

Thanks

 

[taliv]

everybody makes lemons occasionally, so it's always a bit of luck, but RRA and DPMS both make respectable varmint/target guns with a reputation for accuracy. both support High Power and other shooting sports

 

[Frankl03]

You may want to go with just an upper something with an 18 or 20" white oak barrel. You could also buy a separate upper and lower and save some money that way. I bought this upper with a 20 inch white oak barrel for $700. It was built on a YHM upper chambered in 556 with 1/7 twist on the barrel. It has a RRA bcg.

I bought an armalite lower with a two stage trigger for $280. I had a Nikon 3x12 scope laying around that I put on it. I have only put a few rounds through it.

 

[Jim Watson]

What is "long range" in your book?

The Wylde chamber is pretty much a .223 with a little extra throat so you can waste barrel life with cheap surplus crap.

 

[mohunter55]

well, my range only goes out to 100 yards. I can get access to 600, but i would say i'd only really ever shoot 50-300. Probably not what most consider long range.

 

[mohunter55]

Do you risk accuracy when u do not buy the rifle with the upper and lower? For instance i think both claim 3/4 or an inch moa, is it a crap shoot if u do not use mix & match uppers & lowers?

 

[Al LaVodka]

Long Range

Contact Floppy D for info please -- PM's I've sent you seem not to be being recognized by the system -- I dunno.
Al

 

[mohunter55]

thanks for the pm's, but im not interested in buying used. Thanks though

 

[Welding Rod]

Hard to go wrong with a RRA Varmiter. Accurate and nice trigger is a bonus. Personally I would go with a 20". I have owned a 16, 20, and 24. I would expect comfortably sub 3/4 MOA 5 shot groups with match ammo, and wouldn't be surprised by some sub 1/2 moa 5 shot groups. 20" is my favorite.

 

[benzy2]

If you are shooting to 300 yards max I would go with a 20" barrel. You aren't shooting far enough for the extra 4" to make much difference and if you are in the field hunting coyote the shorter and lighter 20" would be beneficial. In reality a 16" may be the best bet for a 300 yard field gun. You aren't loosing much velocity and you are adding a bit of weight. In a target only rifle the 20" is probably better but either one should work well.

As for buying them separate or as a complete. I have found that if you are buying a complete lower and a complete upper that come built exactly the same in a factory rifle, you are better to go with the factory rifle. I haven't seen much price savings in say a basic varmint upper and a standard A2 lower compared to the same options as a complete from the factory. Buying a complete gives you the ability to send it back. While the AR is easily worked on at home or with the local gunshop, some people like the warranty. That is up to you. I find the price savings come more when you want to build a specific rifle that isn't offered. Here it turns out to be cheaper to build it the way you want than to buy something close and swap a bunch of parts.

Either way I would suggest DPMS. I think RRA makes a slightly better shooting rifle but their CS is worthless. Stag is a decent option as well but with DPMS having a NM option and a decent reputation with their SASS .308 line, I have a little more faith in the accuracy department from DPMS.

Whatever you do, get a lower with a decent trigger and not your standard parts kit trigger. This makes a big improvement. The RRA comes with it and many others offer it. Shooting targets gets a bit easier with a good trigger. Outside of that pick the one you like. None of them are out of the other's league from an accuracy or reliability point of view. I do know the varmint model RRA options hold a 3/4MOA promise which is impressive but I wouldn't doubt the others will hold close to that as well.

 

[Damon555]

I wouldn't worry about a .223 chamber if you're going to reload. If you want to use it for long range shooting then the military surplus ammo will not fit the bill accuracy wise.

I had to make the same decision when I purchased my AR. I went with the DPMS bull 20" and am not sorry. It shoots 40 and 60 grain V-maxes remarkably well. I use 55 grain soft points for casual shooting with good results also. Several hundred rounds in the prairie dog fields with no cleaning was not a problem. The 1-9" twist is a happy medium for common bullet weights.

Of course the bull 20" might be quite a load when coyote hunting. From the looks of the pictures the RRA varmint looks identical to my DPMS.

Your on the right track.....if you pick any of the ones you've mentioned you will be happy.

How about just buying a new upper?

 

[redbullitt]

The only ar style rifle I have is a RRA carbine, but it is tight, accurate enough, and works great so far. Nice fit and finish as well. Im sure one of their "longer range" setups would be nice as well.

 

[AR-15 Rep]

Sounds like you would like a 20" bull barrel setup 1X8 with a timney trigger. We sent one out to a security company that took it to a usmc sniper school armorer, they inspected it, no additional mods needed, dropped in a the timney into a Tactical Machine lower and took it to a compound in Va.
They used 69gr hand loaded rounds and fired .16moa at 200yds. The shooter was a former scout sniper and they also brought one of the companies M-40. The bull barrel setup out performed the M-40 at that range and needless to say that setup went overseas within 72hrs. The barrel was a Wilson arms Stainless and the shooter was a scout sniper. We have since sent them another 18" that they use in competitions and is a little less accurate but they have orders upcoming for more. I have pictures of the finished rifle that I will upload to one of the sites soon or may post here later.

 

[kwelz]

Noveske N4 upper. Or at least their barrel.

 

[mohunter55]

Damon, good point with the 20inch bull being quite a load. i was looking at comparisons of what I use now, and it comes in at 6.5 lbs. RRA's 20inch varmint a4 is 9.2lbs. I did notice RRA has a 20inch predator pursuit rifle: http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=229 which is 8.1lbs. not sure what i give up when going from a bull to a heavy barrel? I would say the main purpose for this gun is target shooting which i do year round. I only coyote hunt during the winter months, but i would like to be able to carry this thing around.

 

[benzy2]

The heavier barrel is going to give you a few more shots in a session before heat starts to open things up. If you shoot a 5-10 round group with a the heavy barrel and then let it cool before shooting the next group I doubt you see a difference in the slightly thinner profile. If you blast away for a while I wouldn't doubt you see at least a delay in how long groups stay small before heat becomes an issue. You do give up a little rigidity that in theory should mean slightly less potential for accuracy, but at this price point, so many other issues are more important that I doubt you notice a difference when both are cool.

 

[Welding Rod]

My observation matches what Benzy said. My RRA HBAR is almost as accurate as the varmiters. I would still expect comfortably sub 3/4 MOA with the HBARs for 5 shots with match ammo. My 20" stainless HBAR has done that at 500 yards.

It has also done comfortably sub MOA for 10 shots at 200 yards... it even put 10 shots of cheap Remington white & green box ammo into 1 1/8" at 100, and 5 shots of the same cheap ammo into 1 1/2" at 200 yards.

 

[mohunter55]

hey guys, thanks for all the replys. I did quite a bit of research on this yesterday and now its got me thinking maybe i should just modify my current ar15. Its a bushmaster m4 patrolman rifle. What im thinking about doing is removing the FSB and putting a low profile gasblock and a rail, possibly the troy extreme. Then mounting a bipod and putting a nice scope on it. The main problem i have now is the FSB. I could probably mount a scope, but i dont want a stupid looking gun and I think they look dumb with a full size scope and FSB....maybe its just me though. What do you guys think of my new idea?

 

[SpeedAKL]

Barrel length: 20 inches should do. Up to 24 inches works fine with .223, but I prefer the aesthetics of a 20-incher on an AR. You can even go down to 18 inches and be safe.

Chamber: Doesn't particularly matter.

Company: Depends on what you want to spend! For more mainstream offerings, the DPMS and RRA you mentioned are both effective, as are the Bushmaster Varminter and Colt's Accurized Rifle. You can go way up the price scale with accurized ARs. Some of the more notable "high end" guns out there include Les Baer, JP Rifles, MSTN, and the aforementioned Noveske.