AR15 - Where to start

[ldlfh7]

I am a long time shooter but a total newbie when it comes to the AR platform. I have been thinking of purchasing and or building one as of lately. Building will be more like it as my wife thinks this is a waste of money so it is easier for me to buy a part here and a part there.

Here are my intended uses for the rifle:

1) Would like very good to excellent accuracy out to around 500-600 yards from the bench.
2) Nice handling rifle for coyote hunting at variable distances.
3) As a last resort handy to maneuver in close quarters is needed as home protection.

I know there are millions of configurations out there but I am seeking information from experienced rifleman on a quality configuration. Also I am not looking to buy the best, just good enough.
I just do not want to buy the cheapest option and regret it down the road.

Thanks for any and all information gentlemen.

 

[Fishbed77]

You might be interested in looking at something in the neighborhood of an 18" SPR barrel profile, perhaps in .223 Wylde (a chambering designed to be accurate for both match-grade .223 and bulk 5.56mm NATO). The SPR barrel profile is intended for high accuracy, and is not as heavy or long as your typical bull-barrel varmint setup, but gives increased velocity over a 16" carbine barrel. An 18" barrel is not overly long for emergency home defense use (considering U.S. Marines use 20" M16A4 rifles for house clearing pretty regularly).

If you are going to build your own, Rainier Arms offers some excellent SPR (and other) barrels for the price:

http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-matchtm-223-wylde-barrel-18-spr

 

[MachIVshooter]

1) Would like very good to excellent accuracy out to around 500-600 yards from the bench.
2) Nice handling rifle for coyote hunting at variable distances.
3) As a last resort handy to maneuver in close quarters is needed as home protection.

1 and 3 are mutually exclusive. For 1, you're gonna want a 20+" heavy or bull barrel build with a good trigger and fairly powerful scope, such as this 22" I built:



For #3, you want a fairly light weight and compact carbine, probably a 16" if you don't wanna mess with NFA or permanent muzzle devices. Something like my 16" stainless here:



Now, either of those will work fine for #2, within certain limitations: I wouldn't wanna be trying to make 300+ yard shots with the carbine, and I wouldn't want to be moving around a bunch with the 14.7 lb bull barrel gun.

Figure out which of those three is most critical, go from there. You're ultimately gonna need 2 rifles (or at least 2 uppers) to cover all 3.

 

[ldlfh7]

1 and 3 are mutually exclusive

Good point.
Home defense is probably the least of my concern with this.
I do have several other options for home defense.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I second the 18" SPR barrel chambered in wylde. If you want a good 500 yd rifle do not skimp on the barrel and get a quality stainless barrel and pass on any chrome lined ones. With a 18" barrel and the right stock selection you can get around tight places just fine but it will not be the ideal CQB home defense rifle. Do not do a .223 rem chamber unless you plan on steering clear of all military 5.56 ammo.

For receiver sets look at BCM (Bravo Company) or Mega arms. In my opinion those are the best for the money and the quality is top notch. Look at Magpul stocks specifically the UBR stock as it will be a good compromise for compactness and precision shooting.

In my opinion an ar15 is not the ideal 500 yard rifle to begin with. You can build one that can do it but at that point an AR10-SR25 type set up should be considered as the heavier .308 bullets buck the wind better allowing you to be very accurate at 500-800 yards. The 69gr-77gr 223/5.56 bullets will be needed to make an ar15 a 500 yard rifle and that ammo is expensive if you don't reload.

 

[ugaarguy]

1) Would like very good to excellent accuracy out to around 500-600 yards from the bench.
2) Nice handling rifle for coyote hunting at variable distances.
3) As a last resort handy to maneuver in close quarters is needed as home protection.

I'll third the others. You've essentially described the Mk 12 SPR. With heavier bullets (68-77 grain range) it's a 600 yard rifle if you do your part. The real Mk 12 uses a 1:7 twist Douglas stainless match bbl, and several other specific parts (like specific flash hiders for mounting whatever sound suppressor is used) that you may not need.

Any quality 18 inch long 1:8 or 1:7 twist Wylde or 5.56 NATO chambered bbl made from 416 stainless, or 4140 or 4150 steel without chrome lining will serve your purposes. Any quality free floating tube fore end will work. Put a Geissele Automatics or similar quality trigger in the lower and you have the core components.

 

[henschman]

You can have a rifle that does both 1) and 3), but it will not do as well at either role as a rifle that is dedicated to that task. The optics you would want for both roles are also very different.

If you're serious about having one rifle to do all those roles, your best bet is probably something along the lines of a "recce" type build... 16" medium profile SS barrel with a free float handguard over a low profile gas block.

Optics-wise, for bench use you will probably want a scope with a fairly high top end magnification. Some of that is personal preference, but most bench guys want one that goes at least to 9x, usually a lot higher.

For home defense, a high powered bench rest optic is about the worst thing you could have. You would ideally want an unmagnified red dot/holo sight like an Aimpoint or EOTech.

So if you really want a "do-it-all" setup, you will probably want to have two different optics on QD mounts, so you can switch them out. It would get to be a real PITA to have to switch your optic out every time you go to the range.

If I were you, I would forget about the "do it all" setup and build two different rifles for these very different roles.

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

For an all round setup I would look at a RECCE setup. Check BCM out.

 

[MachIVshooter]

In my opinion an ar15 is not the ideal 500 yard rifle to begin with. You can build one that can do it but at that point an AR10-SR25 type set up should be considered as the heavier .308 bullets buck the wind better allowing you to be very accurate at 500-800 yards. The 69gr-77gr 223/5.56 bullets will be needed to make an ar15 a 500 yard rifle and that ammo is expensive if you don't reload.

I would argue that the 5.56 is a legitimate 600 yard target round (max 400 for varmints and predators*), but yes, bullet is paramount at those distances, and yes, handloading becomes a necessity, both for performance and cost. Honestly, the 69 grainers are too light for 600; 75-90 is what one needs to use, and heavier than 80 will become a single loading proposition due to OAL.

*the bullets that will reach out past 400 are not suitable for hunting use, as the hollow points are not an expanding design.

 

[mnhntr]

You can build a decent AR for less than you can buy one for. Look at Aero Precision uppers and lowers. Brownell's has Bushmaster uppers and lowers on sale for $50 right now. A DPMS Mark12 18in barrel with gas block is $200. I built several that will shoot good enough to kill coyotes out to 600yds. Use 75gr BTHP match bullets for long range. Be sure your barrel is 1-7 or 1-8 twist to shoot heavy bullets.

 

[W.E.G.]

Build the accurate gun first.

If you can force yourself to not install some sort of monstrous F-Class stock on it, you can get an inexpensive, and lightweight, upper to install on the gun when you bring it into the house. If you don't feel like springing for an extra bolt carrier, you can get into a carbine upper for well under $300.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...m-1-7-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

That way, you have 1, 2 AND 3.

A conventional A2 stock is very usable in close quarters unless you are wearing a plate carrier and a backpack when you try to shoulder it.

For inside 25 yards, you will want a non-magnified optic, or just get by with iron sights. Basic red-dot optics, of passable quality, can be had pretty darn cheap these days.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Red_Dot_Reflex_Sight_p/parrs01.htm

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

I would argue that the 5.56 is a legitimate 600 yard target round (max 400 for varmints and predators*), but yes, bullet is paramount at those distances, and yes, handloading becomes a necessity, both for performance and cost. Honestly, the 69 grainers are too light for 600; 75-90 is what one needs to use, and heavier than 80 will become a single loading proposition due to OAL.

*the bullets that will reach out past 400 are not suitable for hunting use, as the hollow points are not an expanding design.

The .223 can be a great shooter out to 500-600 yards and may be a legitimate target plinker for those distances but I stand by the fact it is not ideal for those ranges.

My preferred area of shooting sports is a little different and more on he extreme than most people. I hardly ever shoot under 400 yards unless I'm shooting my pistol or taking out the carbine, that happens to be a work gun. My main passion is long range precision shooting. I'm so into it, probably so much it's to the point of a crazy obsession, I spent the money to have a Accuracy International Rifle and Steiner glass on top and I use that rifle in Precision Rifle matches. (No I'm not rich but may be slightly crazy) So I know a little bit about what I'm doing when it comes to longer range shooting.

I have scored hits on steel with a 16" barreled AR15 using 55gr American Eagle ammo and an EoTech but they were not consistent hits and were dancing all over the place. The few hits I had I thought were pretty awesome as I was using unmagnified optics and cheap ammo at distance. I've also used a 20" barreled scoped AR15 and was able to ring steel consistently at 500 yards so I do agree it can be done.

Now get off the square range and to a place where the wind is a little more tricky. You may have a 10 MPH cross wind at your shooting position but terrain features may have a funneling effect on the wind causing the wind to be 15 MPH closer too the target. At 500 yards with a .223/5.56 (Using factory 77gr Black Hills ammo 2750fps) using standard pressure for sea level the round will drift 27.2 inches in a 10 MPH cross. A .308 (using Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr factory ammo at 2600fps) at the same distance will only drift 21.9 inches. Take it up to 15 MPH and the .223/5.56 now drifts 40.9 inches and the .308 32.9 inches. Use a higher BC round like the .260/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x47 Lapua and the numbers decrease significantly with a drift of 23.5 inches in a 15 MPH crosswind. Throw in variable winds and you are now more likely to miss with a .223/5.56 than you would with a .308 (and more likely to miss with the .308 over a .260/6.5 CM or 6.5x47 Lapua).

It's probably just me because I'm picky as can be when it comes to longer distances but I stand by the fact that the AR15 is not ideal for longer ranges even if the .223 will work for 500 yard target shooting in calm or stable conditions. The .223/5.56 does great inside of 500 yards with the sweet spot being 300 yards (once again in my biased opinion) and there is no significant gain, for most users, going with a larger cartridge inside that distance. Still, I'll admit for most shooters would be served just fine by an AR15 as target plinking and the need for a first round hit under time in competition are two different animals.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I used one of these as the basis for my tactical match rifle. The free float tube and heavy barrel make for great accuracy at range. I did the 1/9 chrome moly fluted and threaded, but the plain barrel would suit your needs.

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=78

They also make 20 inch models...

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=79

Get the swivel stud on the float tube for mounting a bipod. You can also buy JUST the completed uppers. Model One makes good stuff. The full kits ship with a commercial bolt, I have had no issues with mine. Some folks insist you need a full auto carrier, which is a bit heavier.

 

[strambo]

I'll go counter to most of the posts above, a 16" barrel is plenty for hitting targets out to 600yds and will be light and handy for coyotes and HD so long as it is no heavier than a medium contour. I was bangin' steel easy at 500 with a 14.5" lightweight barrel and a 3x ACOG. At 5-600, barrel length between 14.5"-20" is pretty irrelevant, what matters is the quality of the; barrel, ammo, optic and shooter.

I would advise a $39.95 stripped Anderson Arms lower from AIM surplus sent to your FFL. That is the only part you can't mail-order direct to your house. I would also suggest getting the upper pre-assembled, this will be the biggest single expense and assembling one yourself requires special tools and after doing the math, it will cost extra due to the tools. BCM will have lots of good quality upper choices. The PSA premium line is also good and a good value, they have some match stainless 16" options. For example this, hurry: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/psa-16-5-56-nato-stainless-steel-hammer-forged-upper.html

Then just slowly order the rest of the parts taking advantage of sales. Bookmark lots of sites, check often and have patience and w/in a few months you can assemble a high quality AR for a pretty low price. I did my second AR this way (the one I was shooting to 500) and I got really good deals on just about every part. Daniel Defense 14.5" lightweight barrel upper with permed Phantom FH and DD 12 FSP rail ($300+retail this part alone) for $550 as an example...

Some sites to get you started http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ www.aimsurplus.com https://dsgarms.com/ http://palmettostatearmory.com/

 

[greyghost01]

I have the AR15 for everything defense, Target, Coyote out to 300yd
Eotech for defense and fun shooting, Scope for hunting and out to 300-400 yd

Sig 716 DMR for anything past 300 or so yds its good to go to around 800 yds could do better with practice but, 800yds is still along way out there.

308 Bolt gun for hunting and long range

 

[C-grunt]

Watch these videos:

18 inch SPR at 715 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPAQSjaBLg

14.5 inch non match grade light weight barrel at 731 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_cIuMw0_R0

16 inch Recce vs 18 inch SPR at 839 yards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_99TxLnwI

Good 223/5.56 loads are plenty for 500 yard target shooting. Army and Marine members shoot that far with iron sights, plain jane rifles/carbines, and bulk military ammo on a regular basis.

No doubt other rounds are better and easier at that range but that doesnt mean the AR with a 16 inch barrel cant do it.

 

[earplug]

Trigger

Don't scrimp on your trigger.
Avoid anything with screws that adjust etc.

 

[RustyShackelford]

PM...

I'll send you a PM rather than a long list of sites or products.....