Are 1917 Eddytones prone to excessive barrel droop on heating up?

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Group Therapy

Group Therapy

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Seems after about 15 rounds the POI at 200 yds is in the dirt in front of the paper splattering it with debris. First 15 rounds not bad. Get most on the aiming black.

Or does this mean the barrel just "dun got wore out:" over the hundred years of life?

View attachment 232974
 
I once shot 100 rounds through my old eddystone in rapid fire mode, and i remember the point Of impact shifting very slightly. Never as much as you describe.
 
I have noticed that if I shoot enough to bruise my shoulder, especially from the bench, the accuracy of my 7.62x54R Mosin 91/30 begins to suffer too, so the problem is not limited to .30-06 Enfield M1917s. The problem could be the longer barrels (Mosin 29", Enfield 26") tend to droop as they warm up. ;) PPU ammo has the rep of being hot loads.
Harrumph. Blame it on flinching -- I'll not dignify that vile calumny with an admisssion.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
I ;) PPU ammo has the rep of being hot loads.
Harrumph. Blame it on flinching -- I'll not dignify that vile calumny with an admisssion.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. The PPU we are using is just the just the light 150 grain bullet. Better ammo might be worth a try. I will dig around. I think we have some.

And regarding flinching, I guess I will need to shoot more and work this out. Awe shucks. More range time.:)
 
"...Dang, Operator Malfunction..." Lotta that is how and how fast you shot 15 rounds of .30-06 out of a bolt action. 15 fast rounds of 150s pounded your shoulder with 17.6 ft-lbs.(assuming an 8 pound rifle) every time you fired it. That's going to cause a change of POI at 200.
You're not using the rest or bench right either. You need to put the rifle on the rest not your hand. And lean into it.
 
Sunray: "You need to put the rifle on the rest not your hand."
I've always felt that in the field the firearm's forearm will be resting on my hand, not on a pad or sandbag, so for sight check for field accuracy I rest the forearm on my hand on the pad or sandbag. It may not affect zero or POI at all and completely be superstition on my part.
 
I see no point of impact change across all sorts of semi soft rests fore ends lay on. Something hard's a different story

No point of impact change as barrels heat up. Even at 10 rounds a minute.
 
Bedding issues are a possibility, but more likely the old barrel was not properly stress relieved after being rifled and as it heats up the POI changes dramatically.

Stress relief via heat treatment to achieve a barrel minimally affected by stringing as it warms up is something not well understood until fairly recently. Most older barrels will not have had this done.
 
Sunray said:
"...Dang, Operator Malfunction..." Lotta that is how and how fast you shot 15 rounds of .30-06 out of a bolt action. 15 fast rounds of 150s pounded your shoulder with 17.6 ft-lbs.(assuming an 8 pound rifle) every time you fired it. That's going to cause a change of POI at 200.
You're not using the rest or bench right either. You need to put the rifle on the rest not your hand. And lean into it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. We tried all different bag/rest set ups.
And the gel sock fools you into firing too fast. There is very little felt recoil with it, so it is easy to rush the groups!
 
90%+ of the time when shots walk impacts as barrels heat up is caused by the barrel tenon shoulder pressing hard at one point where it's against the receiver face. As the barrel and receiver heat up and expand, that point is where a stress line causes more barrel vibrations in its axis from chamber center. Most barrels string shots in the same direction because that point isn't the same place call the time.

Square up the receiver and it's usually fixed.
 
Bart B. said:
90%+ of the time when shots walk impacts as barrels heat up is caused by the barrel tenon shoulder pressing hard at one point where it's against the receiver face. As the barrel and receiver heat up and expand, that point is where a stress line causes more barrel vibrations in its axis from chamber center. Most barrels string shots in the same direction because that point isn't the same place call the time.

Square up the receiver and it's usually fixed.
Click to expand...

Wow! We are learning a lot from these comments! Thanks for all the technical input and encouragement.
Perhaps not a lot can be done to this old brute of a rifle that is worth the money and effort, but it has been a good learning experience.
 
OK, I gotta ask - what sort of shooting do you anticipate needing 15 shots to subdue?

I always go for sighting-in to count on first shot, cold barrel.

If it ain't dead by three, I might as well go home and have a drink ...

I understand range time and shooting till the buzzer sounds, but it ain't what happens in the field ...
 
BrocLuno said:
OK, I gotta ask - what sort of shooting do you anticipate needing 15 shots to subdue?

I always go for sighting-in to count on first shot, cold barrel.

If it ain't dead by three, I might as well go home and have a drink ...

I understand range time and shooting till the buzzer sounds, but it ain't what happens in the field ...
Click to expand...
'

Hah! It's not a field gun. Just something old and fun to shoot at the range. We are exploring just how much we can get out of a hundred year old firearm.

For hunting we have appropriate firearms for that purpose.
 
Just read your original post again, GT. You are saying that the first 15 are pretty much together, and right after that they go way south? That doesn't even sound like a heat thing; it ain't a string heading south, it's all at once whoop-tee-doo. I don't suppose you have a way to contact the ghost of Sargent York; he'd know the answer probably.

Just for something to try, how about loading up some rounds to "Garand pressures". Shucks, the old gun is probably just sentimental for the good old days.
 
OK, range toy. In that case I think it's as stated before. It is a heat soak in the action/chamber/barrel area. The pressure/torque surface is moving.

Have you pulled the action from the stock and looked down low to see if the receiver ring is cracked anywhere?

I have a "Cracked Eddy" that I worked over for the heck of it. I have a barrel vise and an action wrench so I unscrewed the barrel, drilled, V'd and welded the crack w/o getting into the thread roots too badly. Dremmeled them out then reassembled. JA 2-groove barrel on bubba sporter ...

But, because I knew I had tweaked the receiver "ring" with the welding heat, I could not trust the torque to hold and I had definitely moved the mating face. So after starting the threads back in, I slathered JB Weld on about the bottom 1/4" of barrel threads and wrenched back to the index marks.

Cleaned it all off with alcohol and let it set two days. Re-installed in stock and went to shooting a week later. 2~3" groups at 100 yds which was much better than "as cracked". No real POI shift, just that spread. Put a box through it in one range session ( Rem Cor-Lokt 150's ). Held basic pattern.

I'm sure the JB locked that barrel in for ever (lotta heat maybe could get it loose...). JB is good to 500* or so, so it ain't moving and good enough for a Hog gun :D

I'm not suggesting you do this. If your receiver is solid and has no cracks, I'd take it to a competent Smith and have them face the receiver and re-install the barrel. If they say the barrel is shot out, that's your answer. If they say the barrel is good to go, you should end up with a nice shooting rifle :)
 
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