Are ALL felony convictions a disaster to gun owner ship?

[Sniper X]

So if A guy gets say a non violent felony, like DUI, some white collar crime thing. Can he no longer own a firearm just because the F word is on his record? I heard otherwise so was thinking I would ask the only poeple I know who'll know for sure!

Thanks!

Freind has a felony DUI after getting in an accedent on his third DUI. He quit drinking years ago but wants to get back into shooting and buy some more guns. He actually still has a few and was wondering if he wasn't supposed to have them!

 

[Art Eatman]

SFAIK, to BATFE, a felony is a felony is a felony. They don't differentiate.

SFAIK, without a pardon from the governor, one's right to ownership of firearms does not resume. Don't quote me on this.

Note that in buying from a dealer, the 4473 question about one's record asks if one has been indicted for any crime for which the penalty could have been two years or more. It MIGHT be that if the particular instance of felony DUI had a possible sentence of LESS than two years, your friend is okay. Again, don't quote me.

Your friend needs to check with a local lawyer who's knowledgeable about this issue.

Art

 

[DMF]

Freind has a felony DUI after getting in an accedent on his third DUI. He quit drinking years ago but wants to get back into shooting and buy some more guns. He actually still has a few and was wondering if he wasn't supposed to have them!

If the crime is classified as a felony, and punishable by more than a year in prison (not that he actually served that time, just that it was a possible penalty for the crime) then he is prohibited from possessing firearms and ammunition. That's POSSESSION, not "ownership." (Reference Title 18, Section 922(g)(1) of the US Code) It is possible that a person can have their rights restored by the state in which they were convicted, but that is rare, and your friend would likely know if that had occurred.

However, as I say here frequently, if this is more than a mere hypothetical it is best to consult with an attorney who is competent in the applicable, federal, state, and local firearms laws.

 

[M1911]

Here in MA, a first DUI conviction has a possible sentence of 2 1/2 years in jail, and is thus a permanent federal disqualifier for firearms ownership. Note that it doesn't matter what penalty the perpetrator actually gets -- what matters is the maximum possible statutory penalty.

You might be surprised at just how many things can result in a permanent disqualification.

 

[Colt46]

Scary to think what, now, constitutes a felony

How many things would comprise a felony in your state? A few hundred? A thousand?

 

[DMF]

Note that in buying from a dealer, the 4473 question about one's record asks if one has been indicted for any crime for which the penalty could have been two years or more. It MIGHT be that if the particular instance of felony DUI had a possible sentence of LESS than two years, your friend is okay.

It's one year.

Again, it's best to consult with an attorney who is competent in fed, state, and local firearms laws if this is more than a hypothetical.

 

[Standing Wolf]

You might be surprised at just how many things can result in a permanent disqualification.

Someday, if the leftist extremists have their way, even a parking ticket will amount to a so-called "reasonable restriction" on your right to keep and bear arms.

 

[brickeyee]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b5

(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition? [Back]

Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;

(2) Is a fugitive from justice;

(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;

(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;

(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;

(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7) Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;

(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or

(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

(10) Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm.

Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 478.32]

 

[bogie]

the 4473 question about one's record asks if one has been indicted for any crime for which the penalty could have been two years or more.

Art, are you sure it's "indicted?"

I'd hate to be indicted for something, and then get things sorted out, get the case thrown out or get a not-guilty, and get screwed anyway.

 

[Art Eatman]

It's been a long time since I closely read the fine print on a 4473. I do know that in the early years before any changes, yes, it was then "indicted" and also it spoke to a two-year penalty.

I recall this specifically because in Texas law for DWI, in those years a first offense could result in two years in the pokey. This led to a bunch of backing and forthing with ATF, and the ATF said (at that time, remember) that they weren't worried about DWI.

Changes since, say, 1980? I don't know. Texas has completely rewritten the criminal code, and about all I'm conversant with are the CHL laws, trespassing and the assault/homicide laws. (Having a ChL and being on juries...)

 

[Telperion]

It's one year.

Not necessarily.

18 USC 921
(20) The term "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" does not include—
(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or
(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.

 

[GigaBuist]

The current 4473 asks:

Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year? (An information is a formal accusation of a crime by a prosecutor. See definition 3)

 

[Focke-Wolf]

For what I know, certain states allow it if you have 'certificate of good conduct'

 

[F4GIB]

DMF posted:

[1] It's one year.

[2] Again, it's best to consult with an attorney who is competent in fed, state, and local firearms laws if this is more than a hypothetical.

Half right.

[1] The statement is incorrect or, at least, misleading. Regarding convictions under non-federal law, the state law of the jurisdiction of conviction determines WHICH state felonies are "felonies" for purposes of the GCA '68.

This happens behind the scenes, so to speak, in the definition of "conviction" in 18 USC 921(20), last paragraph. You can go to prison for 5 years but, if your state restores ALL civil rights on release, you no longer have a "conviction" for '68 GCA purposes. For example, in Minnesota only about 30 state felonies are "GCA '68 'felonies.'" Read Minn. Stat. sec. 609.165, subd. 1a, in conjunction with 624.712, Subd. 5.

[2] Q.E.D.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I'd hate to be indicted for something, and then get things sorted out, ... and get screwed anyway.

The 4473 asks about being "under indictment." Once it's all sorted out, you are no longer under indictment.

 

[DaveBeal]

That's POSSESSION, not "ownership."

Good point. Not only is the OP's friend prohibited from owning a gun, he's not even allowed to handle someone else's.

 

[Frog48]

Are ALL felony convictions a disaster to gun owner ship?

Federal law says that most "white collar" type felonies do not disqualify you from gun purchase and/or possession.

I recall this specifically because in Texas law for DWI, in those years a first offense could result in two years in the pokey.

Maybe so, but not anymore. At present, a DWI is only slightly worse than a speeding ticket...

As it stands right now in the Texas Penal Code:

DWI 1st conviction= Class B misdemeanor
2nd conviction = Class A misdemeanor
3+ convictions = 3rd degree felony

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000049.00.htm#49.04.00

 

[Frank Ettin]

Federal law says that most "white collar" type felonies do not disqualify you from gun purchase and/or possession.

It depends on what you mean by "white collar" crimes. 18 USC 921(20)(A), as quoted in post #11, above, refers to laws regulating business, the violation of which may include criminal penalties. But other, and commonly charged, white collar crimes, like securities fraud, larceny by false pretenses, probably aren't included in the exception.

At the end of the day, there's no substitute for seeking the advice of a qualified lawyer in the jurisdiction involved. Trying to resolve this on the Internet is probably a good way to wind up back at the defendant's table in a courtroom.

 

[Frog48]

It depends on what you mean by "white collar" crimes.

Thats why I said "most". But yeah, I get what you're saying.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Sorry Grant48, I wasn't trying to be critical or disagreeable.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Also, be aware of the very technical legal field of EXPUNGEMENT.

In some jurisdictions, it's very common for records of a wide variety of non violent crimes to either be auto-expunged or at least eligible for expungement, the practical upshot of which is that your record is cleaned, as if the conviction never happened.

Again, it's a very technical field of law, requiring expert help.

It's probably also the most common path through which people re-attain their rkba.

 

[mr_dove]

I wonder if it would be productive for the gun rights groups to work towards reversing this trend and making it so that certain felonies do not cause you to lose your firearm rights.

I would be inclined to say that all violent crime convictions should be included.

 

[IRONFIST]

A friend of a friend was arrested for arson and burglary when he was 19 or 20. These were both considered felonies. It was property damage and no one was hurt, but in my gut I really don't think he did it.

He was convicted, but the judge only gave him probation and a small fine. The guy always maintained his innocence, and his behavior has always been exemplary, meaning he has never been in trouble with the law for ANYTHING since his original arrest. He wasn't allowed to own any guns during his probation.

Flash-forward 10 years or so and he decides he wants to own guns again. My friend advised him to approach the DA about getting his record expunged.

They investigated him to make sure he wasn't being a bad guy, and within a month the felonies were expunged off his record. He has a sizable gun collection now if I recall, and I never heard of him having a problem with the background check that the gun store needs here in Oregon.

BATF hasn't broken down his door, and he is still buying the occasional firearm, so the "once a felon, always a felon" mindset by them must not be true in every case.

I have heard that you can apply to the BATF direct to get your 2A rights back, but it will never happen because Congress refuses to allocate any funding for the necessary background checks thereby thwarting the process, and they will not allow you to pay for it yourself.

 

[CentralTexas]

While in power if you take the rabbles power away....

Quote from Ayn Rand

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers."

 

[gripper]

In the "shall issue " states , its a conviction. In th e"may issue " states (Like Massachusetts);it is subjet to the interpretation of the CLEO.My experience was in getting my old CLEO overturned in 08-05 by the state level FLRB. This was after an ugly case where I had been locked up on false charges .The cLEO in question disliked being overturned and dragged me BACK into court on (you guessed it) false and frivoulouys charges. After the case was thrown out in 07/06, upon petition fopr Judicial Review (Ma. appellate process at District Court level ), the (visitiong) judge refused to order the chief to reissue my LTC because ,as he put it "although you were not convicted or found guilty;these were very serious charges"...So Now I live in (bluer than it used to be but not the worst) NH;with a NH LTC.