Are all gun stores this lax about security?

[BigBlock]

I'm just curious if this is something that is common around the country. There are 2 local gun stores I go to, just small shops in a strip mall. They have bars on the windows for security, as most gun stores do. On the other hand, they store their shotguns and rifles literally 10 feet from the door, unlocked. I could easily grab a handfull and run. They keep the pistols behind the counter, but all I have to do is ask for one, they give it to me, and then leave me alone to play with it. Again I could run out of the store, or even walk out...they probably wouldn't notice for a while. I would hardly trust some of my friends with my guns like that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't want another law or something and I don't want to steal a gun ...but doesn't this seem a bit lax to anyone else? Is this normal procedure for small shops? When I go somewhere like Sportsmans Warehouse they watch me like a hawk if I have a gun...

 

[Gord]

Short of having an armed guard at the exit, what are they going to do? Even if they're watching you, you can still just run off with the gun, tackling (or worse) whoever might try to stop you. They probably (rightly so) figure that anyone interested in stealing a gun will just wait until after hours, back a truck in through the wall and steal a whole bunch of guns anyway. Risk-reward ratio goes way up if 1) I get more than one gun, and 2) there's no one around to ventilate me while doing so.

As far as inventory goes, I don't know of any shop I've ever been into where they truck the entire display collection into a giant gunsafe at night. I also don't know of any that have been broken into, so...

 

[Robert Hairless]

It's hard to have an opinion of the stores' security without having been inside them but I wouldn't be so sure that they were incompetent.

They have guns. They're still in business. The BATFE is satisfied with their security.

 

[BigBlock]

The BATFE is satisfied with their security.

Does the ATF do random/secret testing? Of course the store is going to be at the top of their game when the feds are there.

One of the main things that bothers me is they don't even TRY to watch...the guy just hands me a gun and moves on to the next customer. I am often annoyed that I have to wait and get his attention just to give one BACK.

I don't really have a solution to write about...but I feel more secure in an electronics store, than these two particular gun stores. Most clothing I see comes with an alarm attached that the cashier has to remove....maybe gun stores should use these?

 

[nwilliams]

Almost every gun store I've ever been to most if not all the clerks are carrying. What better security do you need then to allow all your employees to carry while working. Based on the vast majority of gun shops I've been to over the years I think if I were a thief a gun shop would be the last place I'd try to steal from.

Gun shops do get robbed now and then I'm sure. However I would imagine that most robberies take place after hours when the armed employees have left for the day.

I bet there would be far fewer convenience store robberies if all the clerks behind the counters were allowed to open carry like most gun store clerks are allowed to. My feeling is that for most criminals just seeing that the person behind the counter is armed is enough to persuade them not to try and commit a crime in that establishment. Of course I'm not a criminal so I'm simply speculating here.

 

[BigBlock]

Almost every gun store I've ever been to most if not all the clerks are carrying.

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores. This may vary by state...

 

[nwilliams]

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores. This may vary by state...

True but I doubt the average criminal who walks into the store intent on committing a crime would take that into consideration. I think having armed clerks would be more of a deterrent to criminals who may be thinking of committing a crime. If a theft is committed and the store clerk shoots the thief then that's another story.

 

[dogmush]

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores.

I don't know, if they are stealing guns, they're definatly armed.

 

[GlowinPontiac]

Most gun stores do not bolt down all the rifles and shotguns. this would make for a miserable experience trying to look a different models and having to ask for help every time.

And if somebody tries to steal a gun how do the clerks know if he brought in a pre-loaded mag for it and is planning on asking to see a particular pistol then loading it and taking more guns?

 

[sublimaze41]

I rember when I lived in Baltimore City a few years ago an idiot tried to rob a gun store I visited now and then. It was one of those stores that have to "buzz" you in. This young scholar pulled a gun and tried to rob the place. I believe the store was closed for the afternoon while the police processed the scene and the clean up took place.

 

[T J]

I have been in a gun shop where the employees all are carrying, and even have a sign saying something to the effect for the customers to keep their hands in sight. These guys are aware of what is going on in thier store, would not be a good target for a robbery.

 

[MinnMooney]

I have been in a gun shop where the employees all are carrying, and even have a sign saying something to the effect for the customers to keep their hands in sight. These guys are aware of what is going on in thier store, would not be a good target for a robbery.

Our local gunshop is very similar - the owner carrys a sidearm, the rifles are within 5-10 feet of the door and in open racks without locks. They have a bell/buzzer on their door and you have to go thru 2 doors to enter/exit. Stealing rifles is very possible from this shop BUT the risk is very high that the thief would get caught/shot before getting 50 yards. You'd have to be desparate.

What would be the safest way to have guns for sale? How about keeping all guns in a huge, room-sized safe where the customer is allowed in thru a 6' high, multi-barred, turn-style. The customer could only exit when the owner 'buzzed' him out. Obviously, this is tongue-in-cheek. There is literally no way to be 100% safe.

 

[bogie]

Have YOU ever tried grabbing a half-dozen long guns, and running for a door?

I have (long story, involving a broken ankle, basic training, and a drill sergeant who didn't completely understand the correlation between "broken ankle" and "profile").

It doesn't work very well, and is awkward as hell. Especially if you're in a walking cast...

 

[MinnMooney]

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores. This may vary by state...

Just pointing a gun at the thief should stop him. If the thief is armed, then there's the self-defence issue which is legal & justified.


P.S. What's the difference between a simple thief and a very complex thief?

 

[Packman]

P.S. What's the difference between a simple thief and a very complex thief?

Simple thieves rob convenience stores. Very complex thieves rob banks without ever leaving the comfort of their computer.

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores. This may vary by state...

Indeed. Take Florida for example. Florida Statute Chapter 776 discusses the legitimate employment of deadly force.

A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's...criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property.

However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat...

Then, Forcible Felony is defined as...

"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0776/ch0776.htm

Looks like in FL you could shoot to prevent him escaping. There's a few other laws that lend credence to the notion as well, such as possession of a weapon during a felony.

I've always been a bit more worried about the crazy that comes in with a pre-loaded magazine and starts shooting with no real objective.

 

[Lashlarue]

Just the other day trueTV had an episode where three BGs tried to rob a pawn shop. All three ended up shot by the owner. None were killed darn it, but all were arrested when they went to the ER to get medical attention.Although it appeared that neither the owner or any of his employees carried, there were pistols hidden all over the store, just in case.

 

[Drgong]

My main gun store has rather heavy security, then agian, they have a couple 1,000 guns on the walls.

 

[Pat-inCO]

The store I go to has a lay out a bit different that you describe. It's an "L" shaped room with the longer leg across the front. In that portion you find ammunition, holsters, cleaning equipment, supplies, and LE clothing (they are the major LE supply for North East Colorado). The only guns are really old, bolt action, military surplus rifles - and they are almost at the back.

The supply of rifles, shot guns and pistols is in the other leg of the "L" and every one of them is either in a locked case (pistols) or in racks behind the locked cases. They are quite friendly about showing you anything you like, but only one gun at a time and the sales person stands right there until you hand back the gun.

The other side of that coin is that being the major LE supplier in this portion of the state, there is usually more than one LE officer in the store at almost any time. Add to that a large percentage of the customers have a CCW and you have a well armed group.

There was one time a few months back when three non English speaking individuals came in to "look". Funniest thing, the entire twenty minutes they were in the store there were at least two people actively watching their every move, even most of the regular customers assisted with this continuous observation. Strange how they decided to take their "business" elsewhere.

 

[trashpickinman]

There are two locally owned gun stores I go to with any regularity. One has all firearms either behind the counters, or in the diplay case. The other store, has most of their firearms behind the counters or in cases, but they do have few racks of milsurps just sitting out in the open, I don't believe they even have chains attached to the racks.

The first store, I'm not sure if the employees themselves are carrying, but if you pay attention you can see some holstered revolvers on the wall and under counters.

 

[MaterDei]

I would hardly trust some of my friends with my guns like that.

You need new 'friends'.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Does the ATF do random/secret testing? Of course the store is going to be at the top of their game when the feds are there.

One of the main things that bothers me is they don't even TRY to watch...the guy just hands me a gun and moves on to the next customer. I am often annoyed that I have to wait and get his attention just to give one BACK.

I don't really have a solution to write about...but I feel more secure in an electronics store, than these two particular gun stores.

I believe if they open fire on a simple theif they are considered murderers, there fore, guns do not protect gun stores.

It's hard to revise a complex and firm belief system through the Internet and foolhardy to spend much time discussing it. Go where you feel more secure.

 

[ozwyn]

Well, if you don't have armed clerks (which you'd probably have), you might find yourself in real trouble with patrons entering/exiting/shopping at said hypothetical gun store.

You see, in the mind of your gun store shopper, stopping a robbery may earn them a discount at the store..... that could get real painful on the would-be shoplifter real fast.

 

[marktx]

Seen the whole range from clerks who are hesitant to even hand rifles over the counter for closer inspection to one shop that occasionally leaves loaded magazines next to rifles on the counter. It really shocked me the first time I saw it as I had never seen a shop have things out like that.

 

[CWL]

How big is the city with these gun stores?

Does everyone there know you?

I think that their level of alertness may be based on how they perceive you.

There still are cities where you don't need to lock the doors at night, and there are cities where people are afraid when the sun comes down. Different attitudes for different places.

 

[Tirod]

It's situational depending on the trade, proximity of armed clerks, and the frequency of robbery.

In my town lots of pawns have barred glass storefronts and weapons openly visible from the outside. The better grade guns are kept locked in the rack in some instances. Electronic security is used redundantly for after hours protection.

In another case, the new owner had the building constructed of solid concrete tip up style. The thing is a huge bunker. It has small windows and seems very secure. Still, lots of electronic security.

Sure, some dummies could come in and smash'n'grab. What they get is 1) on video, including outside, with the potential license plate number recorded, 2) Completely known firearms down to the serial number and conditon, 3) bored local LEO's just looking to "tree" them and send in the SRT team.

It's easier to steal a gun from an unoccupied home. Be careful who you show your toys to.