brandon_mcg
Member
holding pretty steady out my way. local small gun shop has 50 count of .45 acp for 19.99 or i can go to wally world and get 100 for 35.00.
are ammo prices creeping back up?
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lobo9er
Member
Gotta agree with another poster
Our dollar is being de-valued. Ammo, food, gas prices are climbing gold and silver are climbing these thing arn't worth more our dollar just buys less.
Our dollar is being de-valued. Ammo, food, gas prices are climbing gold and silver are climbing these thing arn't worth more our dollar just buys less.
belercous
Member
I've noticed prices for C&R guns on AA going for less lately. Could be due to the season, lesser demand, or both.
I really can't afford another price increase on ammo, not that I've seen that yet. I've seen an increase in availability but not a price increase. (Actually, the price of .223 has went down)
I really can't afford another price increase on ammo, not that I've seen that yet. I've seen an increase in availability but not a price increase. (Actually, the price of .223 has went down)
coloradokevin
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Honestly, I don't think ammo prices have really come down around here, so I wouldn't say that the prices are going "back" up. The one thing I noticed (along with most other shooters) is that anything ammunition related was scarce for about a year following the last presidential election.
The shelves in my area are full again, but the prices have climbed a bit from where they were at before the "Great Scare of 2009". Of course, prices have been climbing for as long as I've been shooting, so this could just be the normal trend of such things. Most notably, I found that primers went from approx $29/1,000 to around $35/1,000 in the past year and a half. But, during much of that time period those items couldn't even be found around here!
No offense, but I think you're being just a bit dramatic on that subject. Although I don't know about the financial picture of some of those institutions, I can tell you that Chase was at no risk of failing during this particular recession. In fact, although they took some bailout money at the specific request of the Federal government, they quickly paid it all back. They also turned a $5.6 Billion profit during 2008, in the worst of this recession.
The financial world would not have collapsed without this bailout money. Banks that made bad business decisions would have likely failed, and the pieces of these institutions would have been picked up by other banks who had been more savy in their line of business (such as Chase picking up Wa Mu, etc). Indeed, some people would have lost money, but that's the nature of the balance between risk and reward in business-related investments. The "people" as a whole wouldn't have lost their shirts if some of these financial institutions had failed, as most of the deposit money was insured by the FDIC anyway.
Lending might have tightened up a bit more than it has, but that's not entirely a bad thing at this point. Ridiculous lending practices were one of the primary causes of this economic downturn in the first place!
Personally, I think the bailouts were a waste of taxpayer resources, and likely just delayed this recovery. When it is all said and done this is simply a "market correction", and things will come back in line eventually. We've had quite a few of these during the history of our nation, and we've recovered from each and every one of them. In fact, we've had a poor history of buying our way out of recessions in the past... things take time to recover, and the market eventually stands again on its own.
It has been a rough spell to be sure, but the economy will recover. People keep comparing this recession to the Great Depression... Look around, this is nothing like the Great Depression!
The shelves in my area are full again, but the prices have climbed a bit from where they were at before the "Great Scare of 2009". Of course, prices have been climbing for as long as I've been shooting, so this could just be the normal trend of such things. Most notably, I found that primers went from approx $29/1,000 to around $35/1,000 in the past year and a half. But, during much of that time period those items couldn't even be found around here!
No offense, but I think you're being just a bit dramatic on that subject. Although I don't know about the financial picture of some of those institutions, I can tell you that Chase was at no risk of failing during this particular recession. In fact, although they took some bailout money at the specific request of the Federal government, they quickly paid it all back. They also turned a $5.6 Billion profit during 2008, in the worst of this recession.
The financial world would not have collapsed without this bailout money. Banks that made bad business decisions would have likely failed, and the pieces of these institutions would have been picked up by other banks who had been more savy in their line of business (such as Chase picking up Wa Mu, etc). Indeed, some people would have lost money, but that's the nature of the balance between risk and reward in business-related investments. The "people" as a whole wouldn't have lost their shirts if some of these financial institutions had failed, as most of the deposit money was insured by the FDIC anyway.
Lending might have tightened up a bit more than it has, but that's not entirely a bad thing at this point. Ridiculous lending practices were one of the primary causes of this economic downturn in the first place!
Personally, I think the bailouts were a waste of taxpayer resources, and likely just delayed this recovery. When it is all said and done this is simply a "market correction", and things will come back in line eventually. We've had quite a few of these during the history of our nation, and we've recovered from each and every one of them. In fact, we've had a poor history of buying our way out of recessions in the past... things take time to recover, and the market eventually stands again on its own.
It has been a rough spell to be sure, but the economy will recover. People keep comparing this recession to the Great Depression... Look around, this is nothing like the Great Depression!
merlinfire
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Banks rely on each other and other financial institutions, and a lot of their equity is there too. Domino effect, anyone? I know there's a lot of populist rage concerning the bailout, and I sympathize - especially with the huge bonuses a lot of the execs made. But if you think it wasn't a good idea, you should check out the history leading up to and during the Great Depression. No bailouts there.
Merlin you assume that there is but one version of the events of the Great Depression, or at least, only one interpretation of those events. There was Fed intervention, and it did destroy the economy. Read Rothbard, Mises, Hayek et al. before you dismiss people.
"I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to (Milton Friedman), we won't do it again." - Ben Bernanke
"I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to (Milton Friedman), we won't do it again." - Ben Bernanke
redneck2
Member
If the youngsters here want to see what's in your future, go to a coin shop and buy a 1962 dime. It will cost you two paper dollars.
If you guys want more of a background on finance, the dollar, etc. go to the website "Whiskey & Gunpowder" and "The Daily Reckoning". They're free and you get daily update. The average American has no idea how much fraud there is on Wall Street. The banksters (Chase, BofA, etc.) wrote a bunch of really, really bad paper and we're picking up the tab. They way they're trying to cover it up is print billions and trillions of worthless dollars.
And yes, in the long run we'd have been a lot better off letting the banks fail. It's like being WAY in debt and going to get another credit card to pay your bills. When it does finally catch up to you (and it will), it's just that much worse.
So, to get back to the point, expect ammo and everything else to go up DRASTICALLY, and I mean by many times over in the next few years.
If you guys want more of a background on finance, the dollar, etc. go to the website "Whiskey & Gunpowder" and "The Daily Reckoning". They're free and you get daily update. The average American has no idea how much fraud there is on Wall Street. The banksters (Chase, BofA, etc.) wrote a bunch of really, really bad paper and we're picking up the tab. They way they're trying to cover it up is print billions and trillions of worthless dollars.
And yes, in the long run we'd have been a lot better off letting the banks fail. It's like being WAY in debt and going to get another credit card to pay your bills. When it does finally catch up to you (and it will), it's just that much worse.
So, to get back to the point, expect ammo and everything else to go up DRASTICALLY, and I mean by many times over in the next few years.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Banks that were insolvent would have gone into receivership, the FDIC would have covered depositors' losses (at much less cost than they will ultimately pay now), the rampant mortgage fraud and derivatives fraud on their books would have been exposed and cleared from the system, and the parties responsible for the fraud would have been prosecuted. Painful, yes, but ultimately the only way forward.
Bernanke has not, in fact, solved the problem of the insolvent banks and the fraudulent paper they hold; they are still just as insolvent, the fraudulent securities are still just as fraudulent; and we are still going to have to go through the process of resolving those insolvencies. The Fed and Treasury have only papered over the problem with more debt, and have transferred trillions of the original bad debt onto the government's own balance sheets, ensuring that when things finally do reach that tipping point, the solvency of the government itself will be in question.
Sans hedonics, actual costs have been steadily (and rather dramatically) rising at the wholesale level, except for home prices. Retail prices have lagged behind the wholesale price increases due to margin collapse (companies are hesitant to charge more when incomes are dropping), but companies can't eat those losses forever and will eventually either pass the wholesale price increases on to the consumer or go out of business. A 40% dollar devaluation means that prices will increase 40 percent; it doesn't happen overnight, but it will happen.
And to drag this back to the gun-related topic in the OP, ammunition prices will go up. Perhaps not immediately, but ammo prices will have to follow the prices of the raw materials eventually, and sales volumes will undoubtedly fall as well.
lobo9er
Member
tongue in cheek right?
merlinfire
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I know we're basically going into OT territory here, but if you wouldn't mind PM'ing me the opposing interpretation I would like to hear it. My understanding of the only government intervention during that time was protectionist measures, which WERE bad voodoo, but were not the same kind of measures that End of Bush/Beginning of Obama took.
KosmicKrunch
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As a reloader, I have found the general basics of brass, primers, powder and bullets are ALL up. They are still cheaper as a whole to reload though. I literally have to FIGHT for brass when it comes available and/or find non traditional sources for it. Still a lot of work though time wise.
I have not bought a new box of ammo in a long time due to reloading. I have traded various vintage ammo and that seems to be fairly steady for the past few years.
I was shocked to see the price of new .38 special basic ammo, USA made of major brands like federal, remmy, winchester, UMCC.... they are all through the roof. When I took my CCW back in 2003, a new box of Federal .38spl 158gr FMJ were $7.20 + S&H at Cheaper than dirt, now, the same exact ammo from them is $16.35 + S&H.
I am very happy I started reloading when I did. I do search the cheapest prices available for all components and use the NRA discounts, C&R discounts when ever I can and I actually ask for the discounts when they are not listed. I do not buy any more jacketed or plated bullets as those have gone sky high, especially name brands like Hornady, Speer, Winchester etc. I now shoot lead and buy them in 3500 packs or cast my own.
I have not bought a new box of ammo in a long time due to reloading. I have traded various vintage ammo and that seems to be fairly steady for the past few years.
I was shocked to see the price of new .38 special basic ammo, USA made of major brands like federal, remmy, winchester, UMCC.... they are all through the roof. When I took my CCW back in 2003, a new box of Federal .38spl 158gr FMJ were $7.20 + S&H at Cheaper than dirt, now, the same exact ammo from them is $16.35 + S&H.
I am very happy I started reloading when I did. I do search the cheapest prices available for all components and use the NRA discounts, C&R discounts when ever I can and I actually ask for the discounts when they are not listed. I do not buy any more jacketed or plated bullets as those have gone sky high, especially name brands like Hornady, Speer, Winchester etc. I now shoot lead and buy them in 3500 packs or cast my own.
wild cat mccane
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The most obvious answer. Fear and war. People bought record guns, guns require bullets. War requires bullets.
Now, if I go to BestBuy.com, guess what? all products are for the most part marked down more so than 4 years ago.
If I were to listen to some of you, I would think I couldn't walk into GMC or Ford and buy a car/truck with significant discounts not available 4 years ago.
Wrong.
No, guns and bullets are increasing, other products are not, to the detremint of the producer, not the consumer.
Try WSJ and Economist instead of Rush or Beck.
Now, if I go to BestBuy.com, guess what? all products are for the most part marked down more so than 4 years ago.
If I were to listen to some of you, I would think I couldn't walk into GMC or Ford and buy a car/truck with significant discounts not available 4 years ago.
Wrong.
No, guns and bullets are increasing, other products are not, to the detremint of the producer, not the consumer.
Try WSJ and Economist instead of Rush or Beck.
wild cat mccane
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Cost of the Wii in 2006? 250
Cost of the Wii in 2010? 200. Oh, and this is the RED special edition.
Just an example. Could do it with trucks, cars, houses, appliances, LCD's, computers, laptops, tux, haircut....all day. That search...3 seconds.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/usa-today-confirms-u-s-wii-price-date/
vs
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nintend...+Wii/1418812.p?id=1218256954423&skuId=1418812
Cost of the Wii in 2010? 200. Oh, and this is the RED special edition.
Just an example. Could do it with trucks, cars, houses, appliances, LCD's, computers, laptops, tux, haircut....all day. That search...3 seconds.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/14/usa-today-confirms-u-s-wii-price-date/
vs
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nintend...+Wii/1418812.p?id=1218256954423&skuId=1418812
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Good idea. From this point, let's move the economic discussion to PM's and leave this thread focused specifically on ammo prices.
FROGO207
Member
The ammo prices around these parts is slightly down for now. It will undoubtedly rise in the future but for now I will buy as I can and reload what I can also.
merlinfire
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Honestly, as vulnerable as the ammo supply is to spikes in demand, I'd get any bulk purchases in before the end of 2011 before the survivalist EOTWAKI crowd starts piling it deep for 2012.
I'm only partially tongue-in-cheek on this.
I'm only partially tongue-in-cheek on this.
huntsman
Member
at Dick's they had UMC .45acp on sale for $23.00 a box, I know they are higher than WW but this seemed extreme.
MovedWest
Member
merlinfire hit the nail on the head. The value of the dollar is going down. Compare it to the price of gold to see the true value. Dollar goes up, gold goes down - dollar goes further. Gold goes up, dollar goes down - we talk about how prices have gone up.
US Mint just splurged and printed a whole mess of greenbacks. More money = less value. Buy gold and buy LEAD!
-MW
US Mint just splurged and printed a whole mess of greenbacks. More money = less value. Buy gold and buy LEAD!
-MW
merlinfire
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Regarding the devaluing of currency, its easier to see with the "Series" of one-dollar bills. Usually, the dollar bill gets a new year-series every few years. When you see a bunch close together, you're looking at currency devaluation OR high inflation. For instance, between 1963 and 1969, there were 10 series, (1963, 1963A, 1963B, 1966, 1966A, 1969, 1969A, 1969B, 1969C, 1969D) 1969 must have been a rough year.
But between 1990 and 1999, only 1990, 1993, 1995, 1999 or 4 series.
But between 1990 and 1999, only 1990, 1993, 1995, 1999 or 4 series.
JohnBT
Member
What?
"A new series will result from a change in the Secretary of the Treasury, the Treasurer of the United States, and/or a change to the note's appearance such as a new currency design.
After the Secretary of the Treasury changes, a new series year is adopted. When the Treasurer of the United States changes, a suffix letter is added to the series year (e.g. 1999A). Additional changes of the Treasurer, whereby the Secretary of the Treasury remains the same results in subsequent letter changes to the current series year (e.g. 1999B, 1999C, etc.). On newly designed notes, the series year may appear on the right or the left of the note’s face side. The year in which the currency is actually printed is not indicated on the note. Beginning with Series 1996 Federal Reserve notes, there are two prefix letters to the serial number. The first prefix letter indicates the series year. The second prefix letter indicates the issuing Reserve Bank. ."
"A new series will result from a change in the Secretary of the Treasury, the Treasurer of the United States, and/or a change to the note's appearance such as a new currency design.
After the Secretary of the Treasury changes, a new series year is adopted. When the Treasurer of the United States changes, a suffix letter is added to the series year (e.g. 1999A). Additional changes of the Treasurer, whereby the Secretary of the Treasury remains the same results in subsequent letter changes to the current series year (e.g. 1999B, 1999C, etc.). On newly designed notes, the series year may appear on the right or the left of the note’s face side. The year in which the currency is actually printed is not indicated on the note. Beginning with Series 1996 Federal Reserve notes, there are two prefix letters to the serial number. The first prefix letter indicates the series year. The second prefix letter indicates the issuing Reserve Bank. ."
For whatever reason the dollar in some cases is almost 25% less value over seas with different currencies. Even the Peso is stronger against the dollar over the last year. One year ago the Thai Bhat was 38b to the dollar. Now is around 28.5b to the dollar.
There are countries where their currency is weaker to the dollar but their government is bankrupt or has one foot in the grave.
I sometimes smile at the myopic view we as Americans have about the world in general and how unrealized the web of countries and life are connected in the world scheme of things.
Us old guys remember things (hard to believe sometimes) and the cost of things just a few years ago; oil, corn, and commodities rising then it stands to reason ammo price will increase. If gas goes to $5 a gallon next summer (as some pundits predict) then the cost of transportation will be passed on to everything we purchase. I am on the side of our dollar is being devalued due to printing and mismanagement. Time will tell which side of the fence is correct and who's crystal ball holds the element of truth.
There are countries where their currency is weaker to the dollar but their government is bankrupt or has one foot in the grave.
I sometimes smile at the myopic view we as Americans have about the world in general and how unrealized the web of countries and life are connected in the world scheme of things.
Us old guys remember things (hard to believe sometimes) and the cost of things just a few years ago; oil, corn, and commodities rising then it stands to reason ammo price will increase. If gas goes to $5 a gallon next summer (as some pundits predict) then the cost of transportation will be passed on to everything we purchase. I am on the side of our dollar is being devalued due to printing and mismanagement. Time will tell which side of the fence is correct and who's crystal ball holds the element of truth.
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orionengnr
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And there are countless instances in other countries where vendors at the street level will no longer accept the US dollar. This is absolutely unpecedented.
Do some searching; I am not making this up.
If that isn't a red flag, you are not paying attention (or don't understand economics).
Do some searching; I am not making this up.
If that isn't a red flag, you are not paying attention (or don't understand economics).
My local cabelas prices have not changed, can still get a box of PMC or S&B for $10 at least one time a month it seems.
A place called midwestern shooters supply 20 min down the road from cabelas in richfield sells the blazer alum 45 acp for $15/box and the brass $19/box. Sometimes they have fiocchi 115gr 9mm for 9/box.
A place called midwestern shooters supply 20 min down the road from cabelas in richfield sells the blazer alum 45 acp for $15/box and the brass $19/box. Sometimes they have fiocchi 115gr 9mm for 9/box.
bannockburn
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Well I'm now finding WWB in .380 at Walmart for $3.00 less than the last box I found there two years ago. Federal .223 100 rounds is still $39.95, same as it has been for the last two years. Federal 9mm. is like 50 cents more through the same time period. The only "big" price increase I'm seeing is with the bulk pack .22LR.; somewhere between $2.00 and $3.00 more.
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