Are cast bullets and casting a growing or shrinking market

[Dogleg7]

I think the main reason for lead shortages could be that the president just before Trump shutdown lead smelting operations in the United states. I have read that lead ore is dug up, put on trains, hauled to the coast, loaded onto ships, sent to China to be smelted into lead. And we wonder why lead prices have increased.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I think the main reason for lead shortages could be that the president just before Trump shutdown lead smelting operations in the United states. I have read that lead ore is dug up, put on trains, hauled to the coast, loaded onto ships, sent to China to be smelted into lead. And we wonder why lead prices have increased.

Yup. That's the fact.

Copper, too, BTW. There are three operating copper smelters in the United States. Once they're closed - there'll be some excuse, EPA, union disputes, lawsuits, something - then all of the copper mined in the US will be exported, processed, then re-imported at extortion prices.

 

[AJC1]

Yup. That's the fact.

Copper, too, BTW. There are three operating copper smelters in the United States. Once they're closed - there'll be some excuse, EPA, union disputes, lawsuits, something - then all of the copper mined in the US will be exported, processed, then re-imported at extortion prices.

I know it's off topic but I never understood why people want to do things in other countries like they somehow do it cleaner... I know that's not true but they justify it in their mind somehow... I thought for many years processing of certain items was a war reserve and now that's not a thing.... whe should have at least one raw material processing plan for critical infrastructure.... I see the military using some lead free rounds, most notably the new 5.56 but I don't think it's widely used in other places in the military... we have come a long way from casting miniball for the next days battle.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I know it's off topic but I never understood why people want to do things in other countries like they somehow do it cleaner... I know that's not true but they justify it in their mind somehow... I thought for many years processing of certain items was a war reserve and now that's not a thing.... whe should have at least one raw material processing plan for critical infrastructure.... I see the military using some lead free rounds, most notably the new 5.56 but I don't think it's widely used in other places in the military... we have come a long way from casting miniball for the next days battle.

Well, I certainly HOPE the cost and availability of copper is "topical" on a reloading forum. No copper = no brass = no jackets = no copper solids... Take copper and lead both out of the firearms equation and you're back to shooting pea gravel in a Brown Bess. Assuming flints are available.

 

[.38 Special]

My experience seems similar to others here. Few of the shooters I know are handloaders, and few of the handloaders I know use anything but jacketed or plated bullets, and of the handloaders who do use cast, few of them do the casting themselves. Casting seems to be a niche within a niche within a niche, and I suppose I'm a bit surprised that there are so many businesses which cater to it.

In answer to the OP's question, I honestly don't know. It does seem to me that casting equipment is offered in a wider array, by more vendors, than ever before, and so even though it seems counterintuitive to me, I have to think the hobby is expanding.

 

[mdi]

You need to go to casting forums and see the number of new casters questions and wannabes that ask how to get started. Growing steadily. Probably the best place for a newer caster to hang out and glean info; https://castboolits.gunloads.com/

 

[jmorris]

I imagine it's slowly shrinking, but the current downturn and panic caused a resurgence.

Resurgence in what exactly? I think a couple trillion dollars given to people that didn’t have to work for it created a resurgence of spending, that’s certain.

Lots of the equipment will likely wind up being used as much as that exercise equipment your wife bought shortly before turning in into a clothes hanger…

Lots of people buying stuff they don’t need or even intend to use, to have it “just in case”. Not like it cost THEM anything.

Lots of new shooters and a small fraction will get into casting but not sure if they outnumber the old guys dying off though. I would guess as a percentage of the population, it’s going down but may be going up in actual numbers.

According to this,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States

We gained about 83 million people between 1990 and 2020, that’s a 32% increase of just people, I wouldn’t know where to find the data on the number of people that cast though.

 

[Dogleg7]

While we are on the subject of lead, wonder how many people know where it comes from. Remember back in school about uranium having a "half life". OK here goes; uranium 238, the most common uranium decays and changes into Thorium 234 which decays and changes into Protactinium 234 changes to Uranium 234 changes to Thorium 230 changes to Radium 226 to Radon 222 to Polonium 218 to Lead 214 to Bismuth 214 to Polonium 214 to Lead 210 to Bismuth 210 to Polonium 210 and finally into Lead 206 which is the stable form that changes no more. There you have it the lead we shoot today was Uranium 2.6 billion years ago. Interesting?

 

[.308 Norma]

I'm curious if cast is a growing or shrinking subset of our reloading hobby... I imagine it's slowly shrinking, but the current downturn and panic caused a resurgence. There has been many shortages that I was not part of in this hobby to know if the resurgence happens each time or not. Interested in if we're growing or always declining....

I used to cast a lot of handgun bullets, and I experimented with casting 30-30 rifle bullets for a while. But I just got kind of lazy, and lost interest in casting my own bullets. I'm not sure, but I think I started buying all of my cast bullets from commercial casters (mostly from Rim Rock Bullets out of Polson, MT) before any of the recent panics ever started.
On the other hand, I still have all of my casting equipment, a good stash of lead, linotype, wheel-weight ingots, and 50/50 solder. So I've been feeling pretty smug and secure through this latest "panic" in knowing I could cast my own bullets if I had to.

 

[n2omike]

I think peopl

My experience seems similar to others here. Few of the shooters I know are handloaders, and few of the handloaders I know use anything but jacketed or plated bullets, and of the handloaders who do use cast, few of them do the casting themselves. Casting seems to be a niche within a niche within a niche, and I suppose I'm a bit surprised that there are so many businesses which cater to it.

Exactly. I have a box of 500 .429 hard cast 44 mag bullets that was purchased for around $20 or so back in the 1980's. I'll load them at times, but they are a PITA, as they require more steps, they get the gun dirtier... and you have to be more careful not to load them too hot. They are waxed, and it's surprising how much smoke they make when fired. Maybe I loaded them too hot. Hard to say. lol

But, yes... Casting is a PITA, and takes good technique and a lot of time/steps to do RIGHT... especially if you are going to swage/size them. For some, I'm sure it's an interesting hobby. For me, I'll try and locate affordable FMJ to play around with, or splurge for hollow points if I want to blow stuff up.

This all being said, with the recent scares, shortages and possibilities of the Feds putting restrictions on lead bullets (see California) I'm sure those who have a tonnage of wheel weights and an assortment of molds are feeling pretty good. I would think there has likely been a resurgence in the practice among a significant population of reloaders, and soon to be reloaders.

Too bad lead wheel weights and linotype are not as abundant as they use to be.
Still want to cuss Obama for closing the nations LAST remaining lead mine in the country. IDIOT.

 

[Y-T71]

While we are on the subject of lead, wonder how many people know where it comes from. Remember back in school about uranium having a "half life". OK here goes; uranium 238, the most common uranium decays and changes into Thorium 234 which decays and changes into Protactinium 234 changes to Uranium 234 changes to Thorium 230 changes to Radium 226 to Radon 222 to Polonium 218 to Lead 214 to Bismuth 214 to Polonium 214 to Lead 210 to Bismuth 210 to Polonium 210 and finally into Lead 206 which is the stable form that changes no more. There you have it the lead we shoot today was Uranium 2.6 billion years ago. Interesting?

Yes, I find stuff like this (I call it 'Cliff Clavin' knowledge) very interesting.

Thanks

 

[Blue68f100]

I don't cast any bullets. The only thing I cast is some special headed crappie jigs because my source dried up, owner died. We tried every jig commercially made and none of them would keep close to the special head we had. Our org would normally put 5x as many fish over any store bought. I had to make my own molds for these for these will never be in high production. My home made mold will cast 2 at a time. Works similar to hollow point molds.

I've thought about getting a mold for my 45acp but have not due to lead supply issues.

 

[RKRCPA]

I think if we see new restrictions on ammo purchases the number of reloaders and casters may rise dramatically. Hopefully everyone will have a "lifetime" supply of components squirreled away before that happens..

 

[35 Whelen]

I have no idea if casting is getting more or less popular, but I'd guess, with commercial cast bullets as inexpensive as they are, casting would possibly become less popular. I have several dozen molds and shoot cast exclusively in all my handguns (.32 S&W, 9mm Luger, .38/357, 38WCF, 44 WCF, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim and 45 Colt) and haven't bought a jacketed handgun bullet in decades as they offer nothing, other than barrel wear, that a properly cast and sized bullet doesn't offer. I have enough lead alloy to last the rest of my life, so I guess I'll just keep casting.

35W

 

[.38 Special]

Exactly. I have a box of 500 .429 hard cast 44 mag bullets that was purchased for around $20 or so back in the 1980's. I'll load them at times, but they are a PITA, as they require more steps, they get the gun dirtier... and you have to be more careful not to load them too hot. They are waxed, and it's surprising how much smoke they make when fired. Maybe I loaded them too hot. Hard to say. lol

I'll see your box of 80s cast bullets and raise you my box of 80s cast bullets, unlubed, with copper wash. I still am hoping to find a handloader whom I hate enough to gift the rest of the box!

 

[.38 Special]

Well, I certainly HOPE the cost and availability of copper is "topical" on a reloading forum. No copper = no brass = no jackets = no copper solids... Take copper and lead both out of the firearms equation and you're back to shooting pea gravel in a Brown Bess. Assuming flints are available.

As though I am not already depressed enough, now the specter of government cracking down on flint production raises its ugly head. Is willow charcoal next?

 

[BJung]

Casting only has value to me if primer and powder prices can drop and I can horde a lot of it. For now, I am using what components I have to test loads with what components I have or can cast.

 

[jmorris]

Casting only has value to me if primer and powder prices can drop and I can horde a lot of it. For now, I am using what components I have to test loads with what components I have or can cast.

It’s always easy for the prepared; however, if you can get salt, sulfur, and make some make willow charcoal, then a hunk of flint and casting is your key to “off grid”. With the right rifle, you will be self sustaining.

Then again, for more people than there are reloaders in the world, stocking up on quality factory ammunition that, stored properly, will last a lot longer than they will be alive, is only half the benefit, because they don’t intend to shoot anyway, they have functional ammunition without having to learn anything and since they don’t use it, it doesn’t matter if they could have better for less.

 

[BIZERKO666]

While we are on the subject of lead, wonder how many people know where it comes from. Remember back in school about uranium having a "half life". OK here goes; uranium 238, the most common uranium decays and changes into Thorium 234 which decays and changes into Protactinium 234 changes to Uranium 234 changes to Thorium 230 changes to Radium 226 to Radon 222 to Polonium 218 to Lead 214 to Bismuth 214 to Polonium 214 to Lead 210 to Bismuth 210 to Polonium 210 and finally into Lead 206 which is the stable form that changes no more. There you have it the lead we shoot today was Uranium 2.6 billion years ago. Interesting?

I knew lead came from Uranium but never knew the changes it went through. Pretty cool.

 

[ms6852]

I was curious if all that stuff was going to become available once we get on the upswing next administration

I hope so, I'm down to about 300 pounds, and the range I go to allows you to recover bullets from the berm. In the last 14 months I see more shooters hitting the berms.

 

[dannyd]

I have casted over 200,000 bullets. Over 30 years ago used wheel weights and range pickup. Buy the lead now; I cast because I like to do it. Never saved any money if I wanted to save money I would stop shooting. At one time had over a ton of Lee one pound bars between the studs in my shed.

 

[Varminterror]

Ebb and flow. We see casting, and reloading as a whole, pick up whenever we have political unrest in the US. Folks believe they’ll become self sufficient in preparation for policy which has largely never even begun to come to bear in any respective instance.

Overall, generationally, casting is dying off more and more, and largely had collapsed quite some time ago. More folks reload now than in any generation prior, but fewer folks are interested in the under performance their high performance cartridges deliver when restricted to cast bullets.

I’m equipped, but I hope to never cast again. I enjoy shooting hard cast in a couple of my cartridges, but I enjoy more BUYING them rather than making them, and I’m certain I’ll never cast to produce a low performance load for any modern bottleneck rifle cartridge again.

 

[AJC1]

Ebb and flow. We see casting, and reloading as a whole, pick up whenever we have political unrest in the US. Folks believe they’ll become self sufficient in preparation for policy which has largely never even begun to come to bear in any respective instance.

Overall, generationally, casting is dying off more and more, and largely had collapsed quite some time ago. More folks reload now than in any generation prior, but fewer folks are interested in the under performance their high performance cartridges deliver when restricted to cast bullets.

I’m equipped, but I hope to never cast again. I enjoy shooting hard cast in a couple of my cartridges, but I enjoy more BUYING them rather than making them, and I’m certain I’ll never cast to produce a low performance load for any modern bottleneck rifle cartridge again.

My pistol loads are far from underperforming but the material limitations makes that factual for most rifle cases.... I have firm conviction that a very large part of the shooting community is not material limited... this idea is reinforced every range trip where I see the results of their efforts...

 

[BJung]

It’s always easy for the prepared; however, if you can get salt, sulfur, and make some make willow charcoal, then a hunk of flint and casting is your key to “off grid”. With the right rifle, you will be self sustaining.

Then again, for more people than there are reloaders in the world, stocking up on quality factory ammunition that, stored properly, will last a lot longer than they will be alive, is only half the benefit, because they don’t intend to shoot anyway, they have functional ammunition without having to learn anything and since they don’t use it, it doesn’t matter if they could have better for less.

 

[Bayou52]

I used to cast 38/357 back in the 70's when lead and WWs were plentiful. I was recently gifted a good amount of old WWs, and so I broke out the old casting equipment that hasn't seen daylight in 40+ years. It was like I never stopped. Got right back into it, and even more: I recently bought a 45 mould, 308 mould and a 32 Win SPL mould for my various target shooters.

The biggest difference, in my case, in recently getting back into casting has been moving away from bullet waxing and into powder coating which is a real game changer, for me at least.

With my newly gifted WWs and recently acquired moulds, getting back into casting has been a lot of fun!

In fact, I'm quite pleased as to how these cast bullets perform. Attached is a pic of a sample target of some 308 cast and powder coated projectiles shot out of the Rem 700 30/06 a couple months ago:



Just plain fun!

Bayou52