Are Gatling guns machine guns?

[The Exile]

I don't think there has ever been a weapon with exactly the same action as a Gatling but is it in the eyes of the law a machine gun? It's effects are quite similar and I'd wager that most laymen would say it is, but at the same time all stages of firing, loading, unloading, and cocking are preformed independently and by the power of a man operating each step.

 

[sherman123]

From what I've heard it is not considered one because you need to manually operate it by hand with the crank thingy it uses.

 

[vanagon40]

Under federal law (individual state law may differ), a machine gun is defined as: “any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger . . . .”

26 U.S.C. § 5845(b).

Internal Revenue Ruling 55-528 provides, in part:

Any crank-operated gear-driven Gatling gun (produced under 1862 to 1893 patents) employing a cam action to perform the functions of repeatedly cocking and firing the weapon, as well as any such gun actuated by an electric motor in lieu of a hand-operated crank (produced under 1893 and later patents), while being a forerunner of fully automatic machine guns, is not designed to shoot automatically or semiautomatically more than one shot with a single function of the trigger. Such weapons are held not to be firearms within the purview of the National Firearms Act.

Thus, the Revenue Ruling provides that a Gatling gun is not a machine gun.

That said, in 2000, the United States District Court for the Central District of Illinois stated that “Revenue rulings, however, do not have the force of law; they represent only the IRS' opinion of the law.” United States v. Fleischli, 119 F.Supp.2d 819, 821 (C.D. Ill. 2000). The Seventh Circuit affords revenue rulings only “the lowest degree of deference.” Bankers Life and Casualty Company v. United States, 142 F.3d 973, 978 (7th Cir. 1998).

The Court in Fleischli stated that whether a firearm similar to (or identical to) a Gatling gun was a machine gun was a factual issue for a jury to decide. United States v. Fleischli, 119 F.Supp.2d 819, 821 (C.D. Ill. 2000).

Here is previous THR thread on the subject: Gatling gun....NFA?

 

[TimSr]

It is not. When 30 carbines were very cheap and plentiful, somebody used to market a little handcrank devide on the trigger to make your 30, basically a "Gatling gun." All legal.

Even though its a handcrank, you are manully feeding rounds, and manually pulling the trigger once per round fired.

 

[dogmush]

That said, It has long been the ATF's position that if you hook a motor to one then the motor switch becomes the trigger, and one action of the switch better only fire one bullet.

 

[N003k]

There's also kits where you take two 10/22 receivers and can mount them up to fire on a handcrank...

A quick google found them: http://www.tacticalinc.com/gatling-gun-kits-c-1285_1657.html

I've also heard of crank kits for semi auto machine gun copies like the M1919 and the like.

Check your state laws anyways though!

 

[Malamute]

Colt sells Gatling guns. Theyve been available from various makers for some time, without any special paperwork.

 

[barnbwt]

There's also an unofficial limit on the number of firings per revolution (I think it's four, but it might be two, and I guarantee it depends on the device). The "logick" being that if you have a dozen trip points per turn, a person cannot reasonably control how many rounds are leaving (due to inertia of the device & muscle limitations), ergo it is not fire controlled by the shooter, ergo a machine gun (or rather, "masheen guhn"). It's BS, but they do have a point, kind of like their ban on open bolts as being inherently too readily convertible.

Actual Gatlings I think had a very low number of firings per turn, due to the leverage involved for the striker and gearing. I'll bet you could make a buzzgun out of a 22LR gatling pretty easy, though, which is why you'd be limited to a small number of rounds per turn.

TCB

 

[MedWheeler]

I've seen a crank mechanism for the 10/22 as well... can't remember its name, but Bass Pro around here has it.

 

[WardenWolf]

It's BS, but they do have a point, kind of like their ban on open bolts as being inherently too readily convertible.
TCB

Not only too readily convertible, but utterly unsuitable for normal use because having all that mass moving before ignition destroys accuracy; NO ONE would want it for any practical reason.

But, back on topic, gatling cranks are legal as long as hand-actuated. But the moment you attach any electrical device to it, it becomes a machine gun. The ATF considers any electrically actuated trigger device on any semi-auto or double-action firearm to be a machine gun. This is because, no matter how it's originally designed, all it would take is a few minutes with a soldering gun to make it continuous.

 

[tyeo098]

Not only too readily convertible, but utterly unsuitable for normal use because having all that mass moving before ignition destroys accuracy; NO ONE would want it for any practical reason.

But people buy AKs, so accuracy obviously isn't a concern

Also there is no 'ban on open bolts' there are 3 opinion letters saying that specific models that fired from an open bolt and had a fixed firing pin were considered 'readily convertible' because removing the fcg entirely would cause the gun to just dump in full auto until all rounds were expended.

I'm sure someone has a design out there ready to submit to tech branch for a legal open bolt semi auto... I wonder who...

There's also an unofficial limit on the number of firings per revolution

Do you have a source for this?
It would make sense per se as a hand crank gear, unfolded and mounted in a linear fashion with 3 trip points could easily emulate a 3rd burst.

 

[rondog]

Do Gatling guns even have an actual trigger? A trigger that has to be manually depressed to fire the weapon? I always thought the firing was part of the cranking process, crank handle - gun fires.

 

[MachIVshooter]

There's also an unofficial limit on the number of firings per revolution

I've never heard of that. If it's "unofficial", then 1) how can it be enforced? and 2) how are we supposed to know about it if it does not technically exist?

I'm pretty familiar with most of the ATF decrees surrounding NFA stuff, but this is the first I've heard of any kind of limit for a manually operated gatling.

 

[HankB]

That said, It has long been the ATF's position that if you hook a motor to one then the motor switch becomes the trigger, and one action of the switch better only fire one bullet.

Many years ago, one of the gun rags decided to check the cycle time of various semi-auto .22s . . . IIRC they used a Dremel with an offset lobe, set it spinning, and then used that to actuate the trigger. IIRC, they achieved cycle rates of over 1000 rounds/minute with some pistols.

Understand they got in some hot water, too, for making a "machine gun" . . . so don't try this at home!

 

[Sunray]

I thought your ATF took it in to their wee minds that Gatlings and the like were evil some time back. Our lot absolutely did and they got all that daft nonsense from the ATF.

 

[alsaqr]

BATFE ruling on the Mini-Gun. Gatling guns mentioned:

ATF and its predecessor agency, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), have historically held that the original, crank-operated Gatling Gun, and replicas thereof, are not automatic firearms or machineguns as defined. See Rev. Rul. 55-528, 1955-2 C.B. 482. The original Gatling Gun is a rapid-firing, hand-operated weapon. The rate of fire is regulated by the rapidity of the hand cranking movement, manually controlled by the operator. It is not a "machinegun" as that term is defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b) because it is not a weapon that fires automatically.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2004-5.html

 

[Jim K]

The Gatling fires each barrel once each revolution, so the number of firings per revolution equals the number of barrels. I suppose some Gatling-type guns might be different, but they would be pretty complex and I don't see the need. (FWIW, a Gatling bolt is locked at the moment of firing, so it is not an "open bolt" mechanism.)

BATFE has specifically mentioned a Gatling with an electric motor as being considered a machinegun, but I am reasonably sure that any other mechanical system that would operate the gun, such as a gasoline engine, a pre-wound clock spring, or a wind turbine would also be considered as not being manual operation.

Jim

 

[GRIZ22]

Google BMF Activator. Turns any semi 22 into a "Gatling Gun".

More than one round with each pull of the trigger defines a machine gun.

Using a Dremel would only work if you had the variable rpm model. You would increase rpm until it was so fast the trigger wouldn't reset between pulls.

 

[GEM]

I think I read that GE invented the Vulcan by hooking a motor to an original Gatling.

 

[Jim Watson]

Heck, there is one outfit that has built repro 1860 Gatlings that fire from "chargers" loaded with Minie ball and percussion cap. That isn't even a "firearm" under the legal definition; it is just a device to shoot a bunch of little muzzle loaders.

I recall the article HankB mentioned, back when Guns & Ammo was a moderately technical publication. I think they built something sturdier than a Dremel, though. 1200 rpm for the little Browning auto.

I had an old Gun Digest about the development of the Vulcan by GE. They put a motor drive on a real Gatling and bought surplus black powder .45-70 from Bannermans. I don't remember the firing rate, but it was pretty brisk.
The article also showed a drawing proving that Dr Gatling had thought of it long ago, it showed a Gatling barrel bundle with a large electric motor armature on the drive shaft. I don't recall it saying that he had actually built it, though.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

The original General Electric M134 and the current Dillon M134D are Gatling style (rotating barrel), electric motor driven machine guns. The Dillon has a fire rate selector of 3,000 or 4,000 rounds per minute.

Here's a link to the Dillon Aero M134D page.

 

[MErl]

Gem, they did do that as part of the feasibility testing during early development. The invention that makes the Vulcan work so well is in the feed system.

 

[Hypnogator]

The invention that makes the Vulcan work so well is in the feed system.

Yes, exactly so. It's my understanding that ATF is OK with any hand-cranked Gatling using original or replicas of original feed mechanisms, but views any "modern" feed mechanism, e.g., belt-fed modifications askance.

As for myself, dreaming of building a replica 1895 Gatling in 7.62X54R.

 

[Archie]

However...

The ATF - FEDERAL - ruling does not preclude states and localities from more restrictive laws.

F'rinstance, last I heard (when I lived there), one could not own a Gatling gun in the PDSR California. I suspect the same may be true in the usual suspects - New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts and perhaps some others.

Check local legislation for details prior to signing the check.