Gatling guns guard Calif. nuclear lab

[AK-74me]

I certainly hope Livermore Lab's security forces are much better trained than the security forces at Georgia Power's nuclear plants. The range I shoot at is about 2 miles from Plant Vogtle. Had a couple of their security officers shooting AR-15's one day. They were prepraring for qualification fire according to their conversation. After a while, I took pity on them and showed them how to adjust the sights on their AR-15's. I keep thinking about that DEA agent,"I"m the only one in this room professional enough-BOOM!"

Just like any other gun carrying profession, there are those that take the time to learn the guns and then there are those that could careless as long as they squeak by and retain their job. I work in nuclear security in MD and I am paid too well not to know all the weapons we carry and be proficent with them. We too also have some that could care less about guns and struggle each quarter to get by their quals.

I don't know what year this encounter you had was but you have to realize that although Nuclear power plants had AR-15's on site pre-9/11 only a few officers were trained on them and all anyone carried on their person was a handgun, a few rifles and shot-guns were staged and that is just how business was done.

Post 9/11 alot of changes have taken place, hardening of plants, alot more required training, yearly graded force on force drills, and alot more firearms familarization and qualifying.

 

[odysseus]

Then why the firepower?

Because someone who is obviously a tactical idiot has a lot of government money to spend.

Because Lawrence Livermore Labs has some very high security, pretty important National interest stuff in it. It does have materials which if taken in the wrong hands will cause a major problem. Even the data and the human resources there are highly valuable.

Saying this however and knowing how things can be (think Los Alamos), putting a few Dillon machine guns isn't the end-all solution nor the essentially the best one either. I think it's all about "the show".

 

[mrmeval]

It was there first IIRC same as gun ranges.

As much as the geaThey put a polymer stock on an Enfield!!! I hope they saved the wood. r sounds incredibly cool, the phrases "nuclear lab" and "across the street from suburban homes" sound bad together.

I'm no anti-nuke protestor, but you'd think a little bit of standoff distance would be advisable in such a facility. A few hundred meters of cleared ground won't save the locals from any unpleasant nuke event, but it'll give you valuable seconds to see trouble coming, as opposed to the three seconds it takes someone to sprint across the street.

-MV

 

[Mad Chemist]

Three things to consider:

1) It can stop or chew apart just about anything short of a tank.
Good just in case someone decides to turn a truck or small aircraft into a bomb and drive it through the front gate.

2) Whats behind the gate is considerd more worthy of defense than whats in front.
Welcome to governments hypocrisy that the rkba advocates have been complaining about for the last few decades.

3) would you try to suicide-charge an installation with miniguns?
Just having them there means they are fending off potential attacks.


If it ever had to be fired in an emergency, I think they wouldnt care much about the houses behind yonder truck bomb.
A blatent violation of the 4th rule, but the authories never cared much for those rules anyway.

+1 My thoughts as well.

JH

 

[Ryder]

One disguntled triggerman and they lose half the facility. Given the way that this psycho society values people and mistreats them on a regular basis I see that as a most likely use these will ever actually see.

 

[AK-74me]

One disguntled triggerman and they lose half the facility. Given the way that this psycho society values people and mistreats them on a regular basis I see that as a most likely use these will ever actually see.

That is why they require back ground checks, psychological analysis, lie detector test and continuos behavioral observations in jobs like this. Sure that can't prevent it from happening but it is about the best you can hope for.

And the same could be said for alot of jobs where trust is required..... it is the same as saying one disgruntled Secret Service agent and the president is dead.

And why would someone that already has access to a handgun, an AR and keys to anywhere in the place go about it by picking a staionary gun and just chewing up property and personell from that location. Much more damage could be done if one really wanted to by being just a little tactful.

 

[EOD Guy]

That is why they require back ground checks, psychological analysis, lie detector test and continuos behavioral observations in jobs like this. Sure that can't prevent it from happening but it is about the best you can hope for.

And the same could be said for alot of jobs where trust is required..... it is the same as saying one disgruntled Secret Service agent and the president is dead.

And why would someone that already has access to a handgun, an AR and keys to anywhere in the place go about it by picking a staionary gun and just chewing up property and personell from that location. Much more damage could be done if one really wanted to by being just a little tactful.

The protective service officers at the Lab do not undergo polygraph testing.

 

[AK-74me]

The protective service officers at the Lab do not undergo polygraph testing.

Fair enough, I just meant in general employers take some means of finding out the character of the individuals that they hire for jobs like this before blessing them off with a gun and keys to the castle.

 

[Inline_6]

Here is the vid. Impressive stuff (though many scenes repeat).

I love watching tracer fire bcz you can see how many rounds ricochet.

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/content/iraqfootage.wmv

 

[Rosstradamus]

There is nothing in that lab that poses a nuclear threat... most are not allowed to discuss it...

I guess when someone from the military-industrial complex says, "Trust me," you really do! And define "nuclear threat."

 

[American Son]

Use Enough Gun

The link provided by Guy B. Meredith provides a bit more useful information than the original article link for those questioning deployment of these weapons by the LLNL.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/02/03/MNGR9H2AM71.DTL

According to Linton Brooks of the National Nuclear Security Administration, LLNL has approximately 1,500 pounds of plutonium to protect and is authorized to increase to 3,000 pounds of Pu. The article also mentions protection against vehicle and airborne threats.

As the Department of Energy has very high safety standards I suspect quite a bit of analysis has taken place regarding potential risk in deployment of this weapon system at LLNL vs. risk posed by potential terrorist actions (acquiring a large amount of plutonium? Other unstated risk?). I am also highly confident that Protective Force members assigned this weapons system will receive extensive training and undergo periodic requalification.

I could be wrong, but, I think Protective Force members at LLNL are enrolled in the DOE's Human Reliability Program that does have a polygraph component as well as medical evaluation, substance abuse testing, supervisory and peer monitoring.

Providing Protective Forces at sensitive sites such as LLNL with the best tools for their jobs (and the training to effectively and safely use those tools)contributes to deterrence of adversary action ever being initiated as well as the effectiveness of the protection program should it ever be tested by attack.

A good sniper or trained rifleman can be very effective against certain threats. I'll bet LLNL already has some very effective snipers/riflemen in their sizable protective force. Somehow I suspect the Department of Energy/National Nuclear Security Administration has decided that there are one or more threats to LLNL assets not suitably addressed by more snipers, rifles, BARS or SAWs.

 

[pete f]

THE single most dangerous, nightmarish, threat to national security at places like these are the information contained inside the staffs heads.

There are people who work at these places who if they were "disgruntled" could turn the place into a big smoking hole in the ground. But that is not the threat, the threat now is from the outside, some terrorist or regime that wished to cause the US harm might consider a blow against it as a blow against the national knowledge base, just as a blow against the two office towers was somehow considered to be a blow agasint both american captialism and the symbolic power of the US. I would think miniguns we be perfectly against a ground threat in a truck bomb, or a air threat in a plane. not much good against a 500 mph airliner, but against a helo or small plane, just the ticket. I was told that a few CIWS got detailed to guard some of Americas coastal Nuclear powerplants, as well as Ihawks.

in most cases, if the BG's staged a major event against a place LLNL, most of the local neighborhoods would be severely debilitated anyway.

 

[RangerGrant]

For those asking why this facility exists in the middle of suburbia, it didn't at first. I don't know when the facility was built, but nothing existed at that location then. Livermore was a small farming community then. Urban sprawl has since surrounded this facility. If your worried about what could happen, you should have bought a house elsewhere. Kind of like buying a house next to an airport, then complaining about the noise.

best, RG

 

[bogie]

I'll guess that most of 3,000 pounds of radioactive material would be HIGHLY distributed throughout the facility. Nobody's gonna back a truck up and grab it. No way. Plus, think about what all the shielding weighs...

As for ubergeeks snapping... that scares me... A few years back, a fellow in the lab where I work offed himself at work... Kcyanide... Just himself, but there's enough crap lying around that if someone got twisted enough, the could cook up some true nasties... I'm not worried about someone going postal with a gun - I can run from that (and you better not be between this fat ol' man and the door)... But hydrocyanic gas, or some explosive mix scares the bejeebers out of me.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Here is the vid. Impressive stuff (though many scenes repeat).

I love watching tracer fire bcz you can see how many rounds ricochet.

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/content/iraqfootage.wmv

Just curious, but when the mini is being fired in a helicopter, does it alter the helicopter's course? In other words, does the pilot have to compensate?

 

[usp9]

Heard from Bro

My brother works there. Didn't know it was that important a place. I'll see if he can shed some light on the matter and post info if I can.

If this is a unique security measure not found at other high threat sites, one can assume this is reaction to a particular intelligence assessment.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In a word DETERRENCE. Bro said all of this armorment was placed very publicly to deter anyone on land and in the air from causing trouble.

The scenario of a caravan of bomb laden cement trucks heading for a plutonium storage building(s) is enough to bother my sleep at night. What better way for a terrorist to make a dirty bomb, than to use "the man's" own material. Shredding what ever truck is just what one of these weapons can do. A sniper with a rifle could not destroy an inbound plane either.

I'm glad things are being done to protect the U.S. Let's not forget that good people "stand on the wall at night" to protect us all, and I for one appreciate them.

 

[ScottsGT]

I think everyone is missing the important part here.
Is this the same nuclear plant that Homer Simpson works at? If so, man, are we in for trouble if Bart has to shadow his dad at work!

 

[Inline_6]

Just curious, but when the mini is being fired in a helicopter, does it alter the helicopter's course? In other words, does the pilot have to compensate?

No. The large 30mm gatling gun on the A-10 will slow it down a bit, and for the 20mm Vulcans on the F14/15/16/18/22 I cannot say for sure (but don't think it does).

I worked in AF CSAR for years and have many coworkers/friends who are HH60 pilots, PJs, aerial gunners, etc. The minigun they use on the doors won't affect it. In fact, they also mount M2 50 cals on the doors sometimes and they don't affect it either.