Are police allowed to look in locked compartments at traffic stops?

[BigBlock]

As we all know police do not need a warrant to search our vehicle during a traffic stop, as long as he has "probable cause", which could be almost anything.

Something I've heard, but I have no idea if it's true, is that they CANNOT open locked compartments (glove box, trunk, tool box, etc) without a warrant or your permission.

Can anybody tell me if this is true? I'm sure it varies by state but I'm more interested in federal law.

 

[SomeDude]

4th amendment

They need a warrant unless they have probable cause. They must have your permission of have a warrant and ALWAYS demand a warrant. If they don't see anything in your car that looks suspicious they have no probable cause. They'll get pretty mad when you ask for a warrant and may try to intimidate you but hold steady.
Of course in the interest in "homeland security" the govt does pretty much whatever they want.

 

[ChristopherG]

Police cannot 'search' your vehicle unless they have Probable Cause to believe you (or someone else in the car) has committed/is committing a crime. They can, however, 'frisk' your vehicle--which means a limited search for accessible weapons--if they have an articulable reason for concern (a.k.a. 'frisk factors').

A frisk of a vehicle (which would normally follow a frisk of your person) extends to the passenger compartment EXCLUDING any locked compartments or containers (since a weapon in such a compartment would not be accessible enough to be a concern during their interaction with you).

 

[RichardInFlorida]

In a vehicle, with probable cause, a law enforcement officer can search locked containers in a vehicle. A search warrant is not needed under Federal law and most state laws.

However, I always suggest going to a better source than a web forum for legal information. Anybody with a keyboard can post nearly anything they want. Although I enjoy the conversations with the folks here, I have seen some very dubious legal information handed out.

Good luck.

 

[Treo]

Officer are you detaining me or am I free to go?

Officer I do not consent to any searches ( you say that one even if they hand you a warrent)

Officer I do not wish to make any statement W/ out my lawyer present.

Learn it
Live it
Love it

 

[TAB]

Also keep this in mind... if they want to search your car, they will. Rather its legal or not is another matter.

 

[mljdeckard]

Treo and TAB are both correct.

They will bluff you. "I can have a warrant here in 20 minutes." ("Go ahead and get one.") I waited two hours one night with a highway patrolman before he let me go. (Apparently two thousand dollars worth of guns isn't probable cause to suspect a crime, even if the cop is jealous that you have better guns than he does.)

I took a criminal law class from a sitting judge, who told us stories of police who either don't know the rules, or WILLFULLY FORGET the rules, to get a search. Why? Because enough of the time, they get away with it. It's tough to blame them. Look at it this way. It's tough enough to make arrests stick these days, you might as well do everything you can to get as many arrests as you can and hope for the best. Beurocratic errors work both ways. He told us about how the same cops call him in the middle of the night over and over again with flimsy probable cause looking for a warrant, because he was the judge on call that night, and he repeatedly tells them no. So why do they keep calling? Because obviously often enough, judges would rather go back to sleep than look at the facts, and grant the warrant. This is when you will need to hire a REAL lawyer to challenge the warrant.

Terry vs Ohio allows officers to frisk a person to ensure their safety. Many officers have been told, they can use this as an excuse to frisk anyone, anytime they want to. When asked in court, "Why did you feel you needed to search that person?" they reply, "To ensure that the suspect had nothing that would harm me or himself." "How often do you search suspects for this reason?" "Every time I have the opportunity." They THINK these rules are there to be bent and broken.

In Utah, police get eight hours of instruction on search and seizure law. If one were to get a criminal justice degree, they take classes on arrest, search and seizure law, criminal law, and professional responsibility. These three classes are 135 hours of instruction, and at WSU, they are taught by working professionals. It's not really the cop's fault that their training teaches them to make arrests, not cases. This is why, the younger a cop is, the less I trust them. When they've been a cop long enough to have learned the real rules, and that it really is a job, it's easier for me to trust them.

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a cop hater, it's just that the more I learn about the job, the more suspicious I am of anyone who would volunteer to do it.

 

[Loomis]

A cop can do whatever he wants. It's up to you to sue him after the fact if he broke a rule.

I don't know if this is true or not, but one cop told me once that I have the right to request the presence of the cop's supervisor before signing anything. I've never tried to excersize that right.

 

[mljdeckard]

Sounds like a stall to me. A cop and his supervisor are the same entity.

 

[Treo]

There's a really good video on Youtube called " Busted: A Citizens Guide To Surviving An Encounter W/ The Law" I highly recomend it for anyone who may have an encounter W/ the law.

I learned a couple of real good rules watching it.

1. Never argue with a cop. If he asks to search tell him you do not consent to any searches and shut up.

If he tells you he's going to search your car: Officer if you search my car you will do so W/out my consent and shut up.

If he tells you he can have a warrent in 20 minutes : Please do so Officer and shut up.

If he wants to ask you questions:

Officer, are you detaining me or am I free to go?

If he's detaining you: Officer I do not wish to answer any questions or make any statements W/ out my attorney present.

If you're free to go: Have a nice day officer and leave.

 

[mljdeckard]

All absolutely correct. Learn it the easy way rather than the hard way. It's still true even when it's 2am, on a lonely highway, with no witnesses. This is why they have dash cams and radio tapes.

Just try to remember the example of Ron White. "At that time, I had the RIGHT to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ABILITY."

 

[Treo]

Are you "Tater Salad" ?

 

[bragood]

How does this work for trucks with locked toolboxes?

 

[TAB]

Its the same as locked in your trunk, now something lieing in the back of your truck would fall under "plain site".

 

[akodo]

regarding probable cause

I bought two 6 packs of IBC rootbeer which is in brown glass bottles. I drank one as I was driving home.

It occured to me that a brown glass bottle sitting in my cup holder wouldn't look too good if I got pulled over. Do you think that would constitute 'probable cause' or not?

 

[TAB]

I was actually pulled over in college for an IBC root beer bottle...boy was he pissed when he found out what it was.

 

[blkbrd666]

Last time I told a cop to shut up, he pitched a fit like a sleepy 2 year old.

 

[coyotehitman]

As we veer further and further off topic and nearer and nearer to having the thread locked......

To answer the OP.

Yes, you can have a locked box searched.
Yes, it can be done without your consent.
If you have nothing to hide, I recommend being compliant so you can get on your way.
If you would have something to hide, take a long look at your lifestyle and make some positive changes before you encounter this scenario.

 

[Powderman]

If you would have something to hide, take a long look at your lifestyle and make some positive changes before you encounter this scenario.

Best advice so far. I highly recommend this--also, don't break the law or knowingly drive around with major vehicle defects, and your chances of being stopped go way, way down.

And, rest assured--if I (as an example) can articulate probable cause, based on my training and experience to conduct a search of your vehicle and its contents, you can bet that I will get a search warrant. No, they are NOT easy to get, contrary to common belief. And, if you call for a telephonic warrant you had BETTER be right--judges really take a nasty view of someone misusing a search warrant or an affidavit of probable cause.

We now return you gladly to your regularly scheduled cop-bashing.

 

[PTK]

I'm a real stinker sometimes when I'm transporting weapons long-distance. I have a primary, ammo, etc., all accessible, but I have EVERYTHING else locked up. And I mail the key ahead.

It takes an interesting bit of police work to articulate why they not only HAD to search something, but HAD to break a lock to do so. Hasn't been an issue yet, where I have been asked repeatedly for keys for other items - telling them, flat out, big smile on my face, that I don't have a key for that on or anywhere near me.... priceless.

 

[Dave P]

"If you have nothing to hide, I recommend being compliant so you can get on your way."



I might not have anything to hide, but I have a lot to protect.

Being compliant: "here, use this ky jelly I brought so it won't hurt me as much!"

 

[TAB]

PTK, I can honestly see that coming back to bite you in the butt.

 

[ctdonath]

If you have nothing to hide, I recommend being compliant so you can get on your way.

At this point, he is looking for ANYTHING to nail you with. Being compliant only serves to facilitate an adversary. You'd better know that "you have nothing to hide", which means you MUST know both the law (when did you last read the COMPLETE penal code?) and what's in your vehicle (you sure your son's idiot friend didn't drop a doobie?), as well as know that the cop is entirely upstanding ("sir, what's this small highly illegal item I just 'found' in your possession?").

Fact is, you have everything to hide, as he's not searching your vehicle to help you. Complying "so you can get on your way" may take a LOT longer than waiting for him to face up to the fact he has no valid reason to search.

 

[WhisperFan]

*snip* If you have nothing to hide, I recommend being compliant so you can get on your way. *snip*

I would consider this bad advice. I've been a cop for a long long time and my advice to my firends and family is this: If a cop stops your car - they have the right to make you stay in your car, they have the right to ask you to step out of your car (for safety reasons) They have the right to search your car based on probable cause. Probable cause can come from an illegal item in plain sight, the smell of marijuanna, or a drug dog's alert. They have the right to ask your consent to search your car. I advise to my friends and family to say 'NO'. Be respectful and don't argue - but just say "No - I do not want you to search my car." Then he may ask if you if you have something to hide, or whatever. Don't argue, don't allow yourself to be drawn into a conversation, don't say more than you have to; just repeat that you will not give consent to search.

Now - if a cop, or cops come to the door of your home, don't allow them to come into your house. If they ask to speak with you, you can say that it isn't a good time. Remember it's voluntary consent they are seeking. I see on Law and Order and other television programs where the cops say something like, "We can do this here, or we can do this downtown." and then the suspect grabs their coat to go with the detectives. Barring an arrest for a crime in progress ..... unless a police officer has a warrant of some type (warrant for arrest, material witness warrant, search warrant) they can't force you to do anything. They can ask you to accompany them to their office, they can ask you to allow them into your home, they can ask you for your consent to search. You can say 'NO' to any of these things.

I tell people to remember ...... the cop doesn't know you and he is going to treat you with a certain level of suspicion. That is OK, but it is allowed to be a 2-way street. You don't know them and you should be a little suspicious of them too. One thing I have learned over time is that every profession has people in the field that are upstanding and honest and evey profession has some people that aren't deserving of your trust. Every single person the cop stops isn't a criminal, likewise - neither is every single cop deserving of trust. There are some cops that will plant evidence in order to make an arrest. There are some cops that will lie on the application for a warrant. In short - every profession has crooks, and the field of law enforcement is no different. I think the number of bad cops is very very small. But to deny they exist is fantasy. The worst part is that you can't identify them by looking at them. So - it is smart to treat all law enforcment with a small level of caution. No need to be rude, or accuse them of wrong-doing .... but take the time to learn what your rights are and exercise them.

It's funny, people on gun-related talk forums seem to know their 2nd Amendment rights and they exercise them. It is just as important to learn their other rights - like those under the 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th Amendments. They all deal with how much power the government, through the use of the police, have over you and what your rights are. Cops usually scoff at people that say that they know their rights - we often hear it slurred in drunken tones by some guy that is in the docket, waiting to talk to the magistrate. However, when people show a cop (by demonstrating proper application) that they know their rights, it can frustrate them.

 

[wideym]

My problem with "Probable Cause" is when officers use the catch all phrase of "I smell majuaina". That phrase was used on me twice. Once while driving a plumbing supply truck and had to wait for over an hour for the K-9/drug dog to arrive. After it arrived the dog took cues from the handler and responded positive to drugs in the back. There was no drugs in the back just 400' of steel pipe and a box of pvc fittings. But since the dog responded went ahead and searched, leaving me to load the pipes by myself when they couldn't find anything.

The second time was in my 66' Ford truck with the same results, me loading toolboxes and assorted parts back into my truck after no dope was found. I haven't smoked pot since High School nearly 20 years before and don't dress or act like a stoner, nor hang around those who do. Other than speeding less than 10 miles over the posted limit, I did nothing wrong, except not give permission to search my vechicle.