Are Precision .223s a Paradox?

[BerettaNut92]

Are they? Would they lose their smash after 300+ yards of flight?

Not sure if I just want to punch paper or eventually slaughter prairie dawgs with it.

Or am I better off with something like a .300 Win Mag, 338 Lapua Mag or .50 BMG?

 

[LevelHead]

Listed calibers are pretty carsh for PD don't ya think? Unless you're shootin' alien mutant zombie PDs...

 

[dakotasin]

223 is great for short to medium range dogging. once you start stretching the range, there are some things that would be easier accomplished by a cartridge w/ a little more whoop-@** to it. however, the expense is recoil.

great long range doggin' cartridges would include 243, 25-06, 308. the hotter magnums are, of course, great, but when you are talking 200-500 shots in a day...

i prefer long-range dogging, and i'll actually refuse close shots. i believe dogging is a great way to push the envelope. i already know that anything inside of 300 yards is a gimme, therefore, i look for shots beyond 300 yards. doing this keeps my skills sharp, keeps the round-count down to under 200, and teaches me tons about ballistics and wind doping.

anyway, to answer your question...at long range (around 800 yards), a 223 might knock a prairie dog over, but probably won't punch a hole in him. at ranges around 375-400 yards, a 223 ceases to have explosive effect on prairie dogs. in anything more than a gentle breeze, you really need to be good at wind doping.

 

[trapshooter]

Skunk,

Unless you want to shoot pdogs way far away, the .223 is a good round, and is just as accurate as any other, given it's weight, BC, etc., that yield specific external and terminal ballistics. The wind will get you more if the round is slower, like at the limit of any cartridges effective range. But then, that's the trick, isn't it? Match performance desired to the range I'm shooting, is what I try to do.

Every pdog shooter I know has a 'favorite' rifle/round combo. I'm not good enough to argue with any of them that hit what they shoot at, with any gun.

 

[beckrodgers]

speaking of which, I have been wondering about this next idea. Not sure if it would go here or smithing. Probably get more views here.
I was thinking about one of those flat top weaver-type rails with the ability to mount and de-mount some type of peep-site also, a quick detachable type of rings and scope for (lol), my standard mini-14. Also, if I could put a ranch bolt in a standard for better ejection clearance. Just something I've been thinking about.
I zeroed a Savage .223 last year for a good friend and it was very, very accurate at a marked off 300 yds. 4inches.

 

[Art Eatman]

For my eyes, even a peep sight is problematic--so for anything more than a .22 plinker I want a scope. I found that on my Minis, the mount which replaces the rear sight, and has a force-fit tension screw up front, worked great. I always used an old Weaver K4.

This allowed reliable hits from a cold barrel, and I typically got three-shot groups around 1.5 to 2 inches. I rarely made 1.5 inches in five shots, but it wasn't too difficult to hold 2 inches. (All at 100 yards.)

The QD idea isn't bad, IMO; I'm just sure of "why".

Skunk, I have a Ruger sporter in .223, with ancient Vari-X II 3x9. It reliably shoots three into 1/2 MOA. If it's not over-heated from rapid firing, I imagine it would pretty much stay within one MOA all day long.

I know the Sierra 52-grain HPBT from a Swift will make serious yuck of a feral housecat out around 300 yards, so it oughta ruin PDs at 400 or 500. Farther than that, I'd go bigger, like Dakotasin's stuff.

Art

 

[El Rojo]

ARt, are you shooting the neighbors kitties again? Nevermind the nearest house is a couple hundred miles away. You are going to start a "I will kill for my pet/Your pet dies if it gets within 12 nautical miles of my coast/fense" war.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Prairie Dogs

Caliber questions?
I once asked my riflemaker the same question as to which was best having narrowed the field to .22-250 and .223 Rem., since he was a weekend puppy shooter with several guns and portable benches.
He built me a .223 Rem with a select Hart barrel on a pawnshop bargain Rem 700 short action.
He picked the 1X14 twist for 40-55gn bullets, we shot side by side comparing the .223 to the .22-250 and decided that the only advantage was the .223 had longer throat life.
In the right platform the .223 Rem. is minute of puppy out to 600yds.

 

[dakotasin]

in my eyes, there is only one advantage to shooting pd's w/ a 223, and that is spotting your hits. in even a lighter gun, the shooter can usually spot his own hits/misses w/ a 223, and that is difficult to do w/ 22-250, and near impossible w/ anything bigger than that.

however, if your partner is fair-to-good at spotting, then all that is negated. on a good hit, say w/ a 7 rem mag, even the shooter will see most of the results thru the scope.

 

[Blackcloud6]

Doesn't the US Army Marksmanship team win the 1000 yard match at Perry with the .223?

 

[Steve Smith]

Yes.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Precision" and "accuracy" are just one part of the equation. "Clean kill" is the other. The .223 can be shot very accurately at very long ranges, but that doesn't mean it will have enough energy/velocity to be effective on an animal.

IOW, I'd be happy to take a rifle that won a 1,000-yard match and shoot it at prairie dogs, but I'd still limit the range to around 300 or 400 yards.

Feral cats? Well, they are incredibly destructive on songbirds. More importantly, they'll work over my "pet" quail. Big mistake. I've got a couple of bobcats in the immediate area; they sorta belong here, though, and I don't bother them...

, Art

 

[Steve Smith]

Agreed, Art. But. An accurately placed .22RF can drop an animal in an instant. Not saying that trying would be humane (or even smart) but the possibility is there.

 

[Redlg155]

Prarie dogs?

It will knock em down just fine.

Now wood chucks are a different story. They can get pretty big. I'd definitely want a bit more thump to make sure they expire.


Good Shooting
Red

 

[Sir Galahad]

Art, I love you! You're 100% right about feral cats. I hate those darn things! Keep up the good work! Killing one feral cat saves more endangered birds in one day than 100,000 environmentalists do in ten years.

 

[beckrodgers]

hello,
what is a feral cat? Is that like a wild, un-tamed, regular cat, feline? I have seen quite a few live and dead bob-cats in the last 3 years in the MS delta. Also, over the years, have seen the "wild cats". Just wondering if we're on the same page. They are a definite threat to domesticated cats, small puppies, chickens and their eggs, etc. Also though, by the way, I have seen one or two with a snake in its mouth. thanks

 

[Sir Galahad]

Feral cats generally fall into two categories. "Dumps" and offspring of dumps. "Dumps" are cats that the owners got tired of and so they "set it free" in the woods or whatever wildernessis nearby. Cat then proceeds to kill wildlife that is indigineous to the region. In other words, it becomes a non-native predator, unlike bobcats. In some regions, there are packs of these cats. They breed. In short order, feral cats can kill off endangered songbirds throughout a region. I read once from a site called "Cats Indoors!" that feral cats kill hundreds of thousands of small animals and birds each year. There are also feral dogs that ranchers have to shoot to protect their calves in calving season. Feral dogs also kill a lot of newborn antelope. Some people are jerks. Here's an animal that trusts them and they dump it. Once feral, they have to be shot.

 

[beckrodgers]

thanks for the answer. I believe I have shot a feral dog of Akida shepherd mix at about 140lbs. He was rabid. I shot him one mile from my aunt's house on a walk. He come out of a bayou and was charging through the brush and I shot him 25 times with a 22lr. The county people came and got him and somehow tested that's how we know he was rabid. There had been a couple of loose tame dogs found killed around there. Definitely a threat to wildlife or other life. thanks

 

[Art Eatman]

"Feral" refers to any domestic animal--and its offspring--which have reverted to the wild state. Cats, dogs, hogs, chickens...chickens don't do well, of course, but cats and hogs live in an ecological niche with few enemies to control their numbers.

Art

 

[redneck2]

Hey Art.....

I wouldn't write off them feral chickens too quick

'Round here they get real mean...bad attitude and all that

Our typical chicken "carry guns" are 458's. Some guys think they can get by with 375's but I personally think they're kinda light...use enough gun and all that

yeah, back when I was a growin' up, one of my friend had an attack chick'n.....mean sucker

 

[GooseGestapo]

WOW !!!

BECKRODGERS:

Took 25 "Wild-cats" to kill CUJO !!!!

or were those VIPERS, OR VELOCITERS !!!?????
or just Yellow Jackets ???

(Sure those weren't "silver tips" are you?)

 

[GooseGestapo]

Beck; not flamin......
just having a little fun w/mad-dog from bayou !!!!!!1

 

[Harold Mayo]

Depends on the range you're going to shoot, I guess.

Accuracy issues are mostly with the shooter, IMO. If you know where your rounds are going to go through practice and experimentation and you can get the distance, angles, and windage, then you're fine with anything (well, then it gets down to the inherent accuracy of the rifle). The only really bad thing about .223 at a longer distance isn't exactly loss of energy and subsequent loss of damage but that the wind will eat it up.

I was raised with the idea that only a bolt rifle could be accurate and held to that until a year or two ago when I realized that modern technology nullified that old fallacy. I recently bought a Bushmaster Varminter to play with and it is ACCURATE. I couldn't believe it. I read about it on Gunblast.com and was skeptical. After I got it boresighted and then sighted in, I taped a dime to a fence post on the back side of the property and drove back 100 yards (measured by laser). Using a bipod and a duffelbag under the stock, I could hit the dime at 100 yards. I was AMAZED (and quite proud of myself...practically everyone I know now knows that I shot that dime ). It is a repeatable trick and I continue to prove to myself that it can be done. The worst part about the semiauto rifle is that, after about five rounds without giving it quite a bit of time to cool down, it will pull off to the left and down about an inch and a half and will pretty well stay there until the barrel is given time to cool. My Remington 700 (in .308) will pretty well keep the same group no matter how hot the barrel has gotten.

 

[beckrodgers]

the ammo I used in my 22 was Federal hp that I buy from Wally World in boxes of 550 per box at 8.96 per box. I buy it because it is cheap and the rifle eats it like candy. there have been several squibs and plain no-fires. also, I have learned to use a jacketed bullet in those non-cleanable extended mags. I usually buy $100 worth at a time. The rifle shoots extremely well. It has a very light trigger and in 2-3 sec you can dump 30 rds. Frankly, when I kill something, I kill it real good. The dog was down. I would have used another mag but I needed to put some distance down and needed my ammo in case there was a pack. I figured you were teasing me anyhow. I was frightened. Thanks