What caliber to get in Remington mdt tc 21 ?

[ACES&8S]

Merry Xmas , not Just Happy Holidays.
The Rem 21 mdt comes in 308 // 300 win mag // & 338 lapua mag
For 300 yard shooting at targets.
For deer hunting in the same shooting lanes.
For reloading for best possible groups.
If it was available in 7MM Mag I would get that for sure.
Another question - Why is the .308 so popular as a sniper round?
Is it's nato attachment as available or is it really considered flat shooting?
And is the 338 lapua hard to load?

 

[Klint Beastwood]

Definetly not considered flat. However logistically, both in cost and availability, it’s what the desk jockeys decided to use. It’s about cost of barrels, using as little venders as possible to buy from, having plenty of, but still being lethal. It’s only popular because people always think ”if the military uses it it must be the best thing” but in reality, every round and data workup with have different external, internal and terminal performance. In a perfect world, it should be up to the operator if it’s the right tool for the job, however, logistically that’s just not how it goes.
However, 7.62x51 it’s not the only sniper round. The .300 win mag is a service round in the sniper community. So is .338 lm.

 

[horsey300]

Merry Xmas , not Just Happy Holidays.
The Rem 21 mdt comes in 308 // 300 win mag // & 338 lapua mag
For 300 yard shooting at targets.
For deer hunting in the same shooting lanes.
For reloading for best possible groups.
If it was available in 7MM Mag I would get that for sure.
Another question - Why is the .308 so popular as a sniper round?
Is it's nato attachment as available or is it really considered flat shooting?
And is the 338 lapua hard to load?

For 300 yds, you could use the 22 mag and be alright with practice, of the 3 options, you're more likely to use the .308 more frequently and thus more effectively. Both recoil and financial cost come into play, and at 300 yds, neither of the upper 2 are even close to necessary. The .308 is not FLAT shooting, but a 165 gr ballistic tip will help with whatever wind drift you might otherwise encounter, if the shots will be guaranteed 50+yds even a 150 btip would work, if closer but staying light, get a bonded offering. No point in taking beating in the wallet AND the shoulder for what you're describing.

 

[jmr40]

Another question - Why is the .308 so popular as a sniper round?
Is it's nato attachment as available or is it really considered flat shooting?

At 500 yards or less it is good enough and 308 has 1/2 the recoil of 300 WM. The 338 Lapua has about 3X more recoil than 308. Even though the potential for accuracy is the same, 99 out of 100 shooters will be more accurate with a 308 or other rifle with less recoil.

Flat trajectory simply isn't a consideration for long range target shooters or snipers. On a target range you already know the range to the target and it is simple enough to adjust your sights for that range. Snipers use accurate range finders and optics that can be adjusted before taking the shot. For hunters shooting at unknown ranges without the use of range finders a rifle that shoots 2-3" flatter at 300 yards MIGHT be somewhat helpful. Beyond 300 yards you need to be using an accurate range finder regardless of the cartridge you're using.

What long range shooters are more interested in is how wind effects the bullet and at what range the bullets velocity drops below the speed of sound, roughly 1000-1100 fps. As long as the bullet is above the speed of sound reasonable accuracy can be expected, when dropping back through the sound barrier bullets become unstable. A 308 with the best loads will stay supersonic out to 1000ish yards. The 300 WM beyond 2000 yards and the 338 Lapua even farther.

The 6.5 Creedmoor will remain supersonic out to 2000 yards and is less effected by wind than any of the above.

If target shooting out to 1000 yards the 308 is good enough. For hunting it is perfectly acceptable for at least 1/2 that range. Honestly the new 6.5 Creedmoor beats it, especially when you get past 600 yards. The 300 WM doesn't really have an advantage over 308 until you get past 1000 yards, and under 2000 yards most shooters are going to one of the 6.5 mm offerings. Once you get well beyond 2000 yards the 338 lapua or 50 BMG start to be better options.

Most shots military snipers take is well under 500 yards. In fact most LE snipers snipers take shots well under 100 yards. about 40 yards is average. They often have to hit very small targets where only a small portion of the bad guy is exposed and they have to avoid hitting bystanders. The true emphasis is on extreme accuracy at much closer ranges rather than long range work.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

The ranges, in my experience, really are dictated by theatre. In Iraq it was a 100y to 300y game. In Afghanistan it was wel over 800y. Though if you mett-t the situation it makes sense. On one end I was working in urban environments vs. on the other end there were remote villages and taliban strongholds often in the mountains, dug in.
Goes back to what I said. Recoil is not a concern for 25-32 year old SOF sniper. Weight of the weapon is concerning, but still, sometimes you’re the guy having to hump with 30lbs of m107 sasr on top of your patrol gear. So be in shape.
Hence why military application doesn’t necessarily transcribe the to civilian range time.
The .338 lm and .300 wm were specificly implemented for shooting at ranges that terminal performance on soft targets were out of the .308s reach.
The 6.5 series might be an alright idea. However, logistically (the usual issue) it’s not going to be a thing. They were experimenting with a 6.5 and like I said when it started, the idea got **** canned. Trying to bring NATO on board is a whole issue onto itself, as well as decreased barrel life, especially for faster string fires, the 30 degree shoulders would make it very difficult to use in a machine gun/crewserve if the dod wanted to standardize the round. Also not enough people have been killed by a 6.5 (not a jfk joke) to really get good raw terminal data to give anyone important the warm fuzzies of taking the money loss in rebarreling and rechambering to a new cartridge.

 

[ACES&8S]

Definetly not considered flat. However logistically, both in cost and availability, it’s what the desk jockeys decided to use. It’s about cost of barrels, using as little venders as possible to buy from, having plenty of, but still being lethal. It’s only popular because people always think ”if the military uses it it must be the best thing” but in reality, every round and data workup with have different external, internal and terminal performance. In a perfect world, it should be up to the operator if it’s the right tool for the job, however, logistically that’s just not how it goes.
However, 7.62x51 it’s not the only sniper round. The .300 win mag is a service round in the sniper community. So is .338 lm.[/QUOTE

I have a - few - .308 rifles & a - few - 30.06 which if you consider it , a 30.06 is really a 308 magnum so a 300 win mag is the same & so
on & on all the way to the 300 Rem Ultra Mag. All of which , if I don't have it, I load for them & shoot them. But I have never launched a
338 lapua mag & wouldn't fear the recoil, that`s for wussies. So I consider the 338 lapua mag to much because I know the
300 Rem Ultra Mag is already too much for deer.
I also know the 308 is easy to load with lots of options & previous testing here, but for a quick kill shot at a buck deer walking across the 20 yard wide lane in wind & considering bullet drop, it just doesn't seem like instant kill if one is wrong.
So that leaves me with the 300 Win Mag or I should say the -308 Mag Mag- which seems like everyone has one except me & I load them shoot them a lot but haven't been impressed with the loads which is probably the optics in most cases so I guess I am leaning that
way since the cash is ok for the rifle & optics, maybe the Rem 21 barrel length will help plus the twist rate. Has anyone used this in
300 Win Mag ?

 

[Klint Beastwood]

i was just commenting on the sniper specific part. A .338 lm is expensive to run on personal funds. About $100 for 20rds expensive. You almost need to reload for it if you shoot in volume.
As far as deer hunting goes, everyone, especially on here are different. I’ve taken some pretty far mule deer shots that some people might boo about, however I don’t make a habit or sport of it. If I can stalk in closer I will. So really it’s personal preference. As far as wind and drop. I have scopes that I dial for and extensive dope that i put a lot of time into. I have ballistic software that I put a lot of time into matching with my dope and truing.
In most long range set ups, even for hunting, I use heavy for caliber high bc bullets. The wind is a struggle no matter who you are, if the shot is a soft target and i don’t feel 100% on it, I don’t take it.
Like others said, there’s a lot of good flat shooting cartridge choices. It doesn’t have to be .30 cal or magnum. It’s whatever works for you.

 

[ACES&8S]

Merry Xmas , not Just Happy Holidays.
The Rem 21 mdt comes in 308 // 300 win mag // & 338 lapua mag
For 300 yard shooting at targets.
For deer hunting in the same shooting lanes.
For reloading for best possible groups.
If it was available in 7MM Mag I would get that for sure.
Another question - Why is the .308 so popular as a sniper round?
Is it's nato attachment as available or is it really considered flat shooting?
And is the 338 lapua hard to load?

Thanks everyone for your info, very informative , special thanks to Klint.