cdb1
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That’s practical accuracy using iron sights and has nothing to do with intrinsic accuracy.
Are shorter barrels capable of being more accurate than long ones?
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That’s practical accuracy using iron sights and has nothing to do with intrinsic accuracy.
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TTv2
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Just got back from the range with the Charger today. Using a Mueller APV 4.5-14 scope and a Shockwave pistol brace, I was getting 1 inch at 50 yards with CCI Standard Velocity off a cheap plastic rest and rings that aren't tall enough. With better equipment and ergonomics and match ammo, I believe that the Charger is capable of 1 MOA at 100 yards.
Which is more than I can say for my Marlin with the 22 inch barrel that can't group under 2 inches at 50 yards with any ammo.
Which is more than I can say for my Marlin with the 22 inch barrel that can't group under 2 inches at 50 yards with any ammo.
It's at a certain vibration point, which is how barrel "tuners" work.
A bad long barrel won't shoot as well as a short good barrel, and vice versa. A long barreled rifle with open sights is easier to shoot well than a short barreled handgun with open sights because of the sight radius, but that has nothing to do with is the barrel accurate, just which is easier to be "accurate" with.
rskent
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Ok, keeping with 22lr here, is there any consensus on what barrel length on average is most accurate? Not talking about sight radius, bedded stocks, better triggers, just barrels.
CraigC
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It wasn't about vibration, it was related to the rotation of the bullet in the bore and the twist rate.
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TTv2
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This is just my opinion, I can't speak for anyone else's.
Having shot .22 in barrels from 2 inches up to 22 inches, with 10 inches so far being the most accurate for me and 22 inches being the worst, I think it's something between 10 and 16 inches. 18.5 is a standard length apparently, but given that standard velocity .22 does not gain much past 10 inches of barrel, you don't need to go above 16 inches for accuracy. In fact, it seems the longer you go for barrel length in a .22, the lower your accuracy is going to be.
If you're looking at shooting hi or hyper velocity, I think 16 inches makes more sense as it does increase the velocity of that .22 ammo, but by how much Idk. Whatever the gain, it just increases the distance from where it goes from supersonic to subsonic. The great thing about standard velocity is it's never supersonic, thus it can't go to subsonic and have issues from the transition.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
And yet some, like myself, prefer a longer barrel. IMHO, this isn't a decision to be made solely based on a data sheet.
rskent
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I currently have a 20” barrel. When I put it together originally, I was using irons. Now I’m using a scope. I am looking at maybe getting a different barrel, possibly another gun.
IndianaBoy
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Ignoring the aspects of sight radius, it has to do with rigidity, not length.
A shorter barrel of a given outside diameter will be more rigid than a longer barrel of the same diameter. It is still important to find an accuracy node in the vibration of whatever barrel you are shooting with a given ammo to get best results.
A load tuned for a longer barrel will probably give better results than a load that exits a shorter barrel at an inopportune time.
So, as with most things in life: Yes, but it depends.
A shorter barrel of a given outside diameter will be more rigid than a longer barrel of the same diameter. It is still important to find an accuracy node in the vibration of whatever barrel you are shooting with a given ammo to get best results.
A load tuned for a longer barrel will probably give better results than a load that exits a shorter barrel at an inopportune time.
So, as with most things in life: Yes, but it depends.
IndianaBoy
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Velocity plays an important role in some criteria. If you are trying for long distance accuracy, trajectory is important, as is velocity in order to resist wind drift. You won't see any 16" barrels at a PRS match.
RecoilRob
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The .22 High Velocity ammo does about all it's going to do in 18" from all I've seen...and actually will slow down in a much longer barrel. This could offer a benefit if it slows to subsonic thus avoiding the transition partway to the target. With Standard Velocity ammo it's going to be going slower yet which won't have supersonic issues but will increase the drop at longer range.
The shorter barrel is naturally stiffer when of the same diameter, and a heavy 18" works well for many shooters. But a 24" offers a greater polar moment and could 'hang' better on the target where a shorter barrel will deflect more easily. Lots and lots of ways to 'skin the cat' so to speak.
The shorter barrel is naturally stiffer when of the same diameter, and a heavy 18" works well for many shooters. But a 24" offers a greater polar moment and could 'hang' better on the target where a shorter barrel will deflect more easily. Lots and lots of ways to 'skin the cat' so to speak.
I have smallbore buds, who are State Champions and shot in England last year, on the American Team, who have 16" barrels on their match 22lr's. This is for velocity, the 22lr reaches maximum velocity around 16", after that the rate of gas expansion is such, bullet velocities are less for longer 22lr barrels. However, my Buds' use a "bloop tube", which is a tube that fits on the muzzle, and that will give them a 30"+ iron sight radius. They claim better precision with that longer sight radius., and I believe them. Smallbore prone regionals have an iron sight day, or two, and "any" day or two. Regionals are either two or four days of shooting. My Bud's attach the bloop tube when using scopes on the any days, I think they have their loads tuned to the rifle with the bloop tube attached. One peculiarity of the bloop tube is that it needs to be cleaned as shooters claim a dirty bloop tube shoots erratically. Maybe something is going on in a dirty tube. One bud is also a gunsmith, he uses Benchmark barrels and ensures that the choke point in the barrel is the exact exit point of the bullet. Works for him. A high quality barrel and perfect chambering job are just as critical to precision as anything else. If the chamber is off axis, and the barrel has loose spots, the bullet is going to wobble. Gun drilling seldom produces a barrel with a hole perfectly concentric the entire length. A good gunsmith measures the runout and selects the one with least off axis hole for a match rifle.
While barrel length is important for precision with irons, lots of service rifle National Championships have been won with AR15's and their 20 inch barrels. To shoot a AR15 well, with irons, you really have to work super duper hard with sight alignment. Its like shooting a snubbie and you have to work each and every shot to keep the sight picture and sight alignment perfect. A little mis alignment and you are way out. Since the NRA has allowed optical sights, we will see how that turns out. I can say, barrel length does not make much of any difference in precision, it does add to velocity, also, it adds to weight. A long barrel is just about impossible to hold steady offhand if the weight is not distributed to balance the rifle. A slight nose heavy rifle is fine, but not a real nose heavy rifle.
Something that is being ignored in this discussion is action rigidity. Rigid actions vibrate more consistently over a wider energy input than less rigid actions. If you look at Barnard actions, they have
Symmetrical locking system
Very thick sidewalls
As few cutouts as possible.
While barrel length is important for precision with irons, lots of service rifle National Championships have been won with AR15's and their 20 inch barrels. To shoot a AR15 well, with irons, you really have to work super duper hard with sight alignment. Its like shooting a snubbie and you have to work each and every shot to keep the sight picture and sight alignment perfect. A little mis alignment and you are way out. Since the NRA has allowed optical sights, we will see how that turns out. I can say, barrel length does not make much of any difference in precision, it does add to velocity, also, it adds to weight. A long barrel is just about impossible to hold steady offhand if the weight is not distributed to balance the rifle. A slight nose heavy rifle is fine, but not a real nose heavy rifle.
Something that is being ignored in this discussion is action rigidity. Rigid actions vibrate more consistently over a wider energy input than less rigid actions. If you look at Barnard actions, they have
Symmetrical locking system
Very thick sidewalls
As few cutouts as possible.
I don't think most of us are good enough to notice the difference in most cases. In theory a "stiffer" barrel should be more accurate, and a shorter barrel of the same diameter is stiffer. But there are so many other factors. About the only things I believe it is safe to say is that with iron sights a longer sight radius makes it easier for most shooters to shoot them more accurately. And a shorter barrel isn't a handicap if using optics. At least at "normal" ranges. An extra 4" of barrel might give enough more velocity to mean a bullet remains supersonic to 1000 yards instead of 950 yards.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Some of you are mixing centerfire concepts in a rimfire discussion. Rimfire barrels don't vibrate like centerfires.
sparkyv
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I agree with thse assertions.
Varminterror
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In fairness, Service Rifle matches don’t allow longer than 20” AR’s, and the irons are required to be of standard A2-A3 type, and in the standard position.
So this is basically saying competitions among 20” AR’s are won by 20” AR’s.
Open the field a bit, consider Match Rifles - while it might have happened, it’s a purty rare day when a 20” A2 bests a 29” Match Rifle.
Pete D.
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Good observation.
About .22s.....what will you see if you walk the line at a smallbore championship - either day, iron sights or any sights - mostly long barrels (forget the bloop tube) or mostly short? (How many short barreled prone rifles does Anschutz make?) What are the winners shooting?
I understand that that begs the question about the potential accuracy vis a vis short and long barreled guns; it does, though, show what is seen as most effective in that game of Xs.
The last year the Marine team used M14's (22" inch barrel) in NRA XTC competition was 1996. After that, they transitioned over to the 20" match M16. The AMU had won several Service Rifle National Champions before then. I asked the Marines in 1997 how the 223 was doing, compared to the M14, they said "about the same offhand, a little better in rapid fire, and a little worse at long range." Barrel length was not the determining factor, recoil was. The 308 Win round knocks the shooter out of position and it takes more work on position to shoot a 308 well. I did earn my Distinguished with a M1a and I am proud of it. I also won many medals at Camp Perry with a AR based 223 Space Gun with a 24" barrel. I know many who used a longer barrel, for velocity, but I liked the balance off hand with my rifle and it shot well enough out to 600 yards.
It all depends on the shooter. I have shot with many Competitors who had 20" flat tops and match sights and they were very good. At 600 yards they were at a slight disadvantage velocity wise, but all 223's are at a disadvantage at that range compared to 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, and even against 185 or 190 308 bullets. You win an XTC match standing and lose it prone slow fire.
As a general rule, the older the shooter and the better the shooter, the more likely they are to have a bloop tube. I am going to say, the bloop tube help for vision, but it will not win you the match. You have to hold harder, have a perfect repeatable position, consistent trigger pull, and read the wind better than your competitors. The ability to read, judge, and correctly predict wind conditions is the primary sorting factor in small bore prone. The good shooters figure out sight alignment, trigger pull, its the wind that gets everybody.
There are lots of short barreled Anschutz rifles on the firing line. They did not come that way from the factory. Shooters buy a premium, aftermarket barrel, and pay someone to install the thing. Accuracy wise, an Anschutz barrel is just fine, but, shooters follow the herd.
Vern Humphrey
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All the powder that is going to burn is burned in the first couple of inches of barrel. From then on, it is simply expanding gas that pushes the bullet down the bore. The "balance point" for a .22 LR is somewhere around 14" - 16". Beyond that point, barrel friction is greater than the expansion power of the gas, and muzzle velocity is lower for longer barrels.
In .22 LR, a longer barrel does three things:
1. It makes the rifle heavier, and that tends to damp the wobbles some.
2. It makes the rifle muzzle heavy, which is an advantage when shooting without a rest -- especially in the standing, unsupported position.
3. It gives a longer sight radius when using iron sights.
Dr T
Member
I think that the quality of the muzzle crown has more to do with the accuracy than the length of the barrel. Note, this is an opinion with a limited amount of observational data. But, I have short barreled rifles that are more accurate than their long barreled cousins.
someguy2800
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Great article!
Offfhand
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Let's get back to the original question, which is: "Are shorter barrels capable of being more accurate than long ones?" The simple and obvious answer is a resounding yes, of course they are capable. It's only a matter of which short barrels you compare with which long barrels. Attached is photo of a short range benchrest rifle with a stubby 21" barrel that is more accurate than 99.999% of all rifles that have ever existed on this planet regardless of barrel lengths. The reason it is so accurate however is not entirely due to the shortness of its barrel but because of other factors related to the rifle's construction and quality of materials. Also attached is an Unlimited Class BR rifle with a much longer barrel. Both rifles have repeatedly won matches and placed at the top, or near the top in National Championship level competitions, so there is no question about their comparative accuracy potential. If however, shorter barrel(s) were demonstratively more accurate, benchrest shooters would long ago have been using them in their Unlimited rifles. But it hasn't happened because when other factors are equal it's the longer barrels that take home the prizes..
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