Are there any 22s for CC?

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To be an effective self defense tool the operator needs to be proficient. Practice is the only way most people can stay proficient. I have a hard time believing that teeny tiny pocket guns would be comfort enough to shoot enough to get and stay proficient.

Just my opinion but a Bersa Thunder .22 sized pistol is the smallest I'd recommend a non-gunny go when looking at a CCw.

The choices for quality .22LR ammo have never been better, pay enough and you'll get good quality ammo, shoot the hell out of it and determine what works best. A reputable gun smith can make improvements to most pistols to make them more reliable.

A person looking for a .22LR semi auto for self defense may not make their first choice their final choice. But the Bersa may be a good first step. They can be had for $250-300 so there's not a big down side. They have a good rep and the .380 (same frame size as the .22LR) my wife has fits in my best bang for the buck category.

Here's a video review...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhSgJZ6aw7o
 
RIA 1911 in .22 TCM. Centerfire reliability, 1911 operation, minimal recoil. Ammo isn't cheap, but it isn't prohibitively expensive either. Pretty much online online for purchase, not gonna see it in your local Wal-Mart or most LGS.
 
I probably should not post in this thread. But I do understand the op does not want to get involved in the debate... You are on the right track.. in not getting involved.. I would never recommend anything 22 as a carry piece... If your friend doesn't like the crack of a .380 ACP.. he really wont like the crack of a drugged up 280 lb. bad guy with five or six rounds from your friends 22 in him and it only pisses him off, so that he can unload his 9mm into your friend...
Here is the worst case scenario... you recommend a 22.. your friend gets mugged, the gun is ineffective in putting down the threat quick enough and it allows the bad guy to kill your fiend,.., and then they ( wife and family ) say well " YOU" recommended that gun..... Now " THAT' is something you don't want to get involved with.

Just a point of view... while anything is better than nothing.. a 22 is almost nothing.
A 22 ?

John Hinckley shot James Brady at point blank range and Ronald Reagan by emptying his six shot 22 at both men.. he was less than 3 feet from both men striking Brady in the head, and Reagan in the chest lodging in his left lung, with no kinetic shock or trauma.. AS we all know both men survived. and this was at point blank range.
 
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Brady has been paralyzed ever since and Reagan would have died if not for trauma surgery within minutes of the shooting. Both men were shot, a close range, and effectively stopped. Granted, neither were hopped up on drugs, but in Brady's case, it wouldn't have mattered if he was.

You point out this was at point blank range. At what distance do you expect most defensive shooting to occur?

No one should ever advocate a .22 rimfire as the best choice for self defense. I personally don't like the .380 because of the size of the gun and light weight generally makes felt recoil sharper than a 9mm. My 9mm is only slightly bigger than most .380s, with less recoil and more control.

I'd carry a .22 as a deep conceal back up piece if nothing else.

But if they are insistent on a .22 rim fire, find the right combo of gun to ammo.

With a .22 as a primary carry, I'd recommend a revolver just in case you do get a misfire. Squeeze the trigger again to cycle over to the next round. LCR in .22 or .22 mag would be a good pick.
 
Walther PP in 32acp. It is a reasonably soft shooter.

My wife likes the Taurus M85 with the Federal Hydroshok 115gr Low Recoil load. Recoil is definitely low.

If I had to choose 22lr, it would be in a double action revolver. But the trigger pull will be heavy.
 
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lMO one of the best .22LR semiauto for concealed carry is the Beretta 21A. I have owned mine for many years and before the introduction of the small .380's like the Keltec P3at I occasionally carried it. A reliable handgun with easy tilt barrel loading its small size makes concealing quite simple in a pocket.

beretta2.jpg
 
I have had a couple of Beretta Bobcats but reliability was not always their strong suit. I don't think it's so much the design or quality of the pistol so much as it's the inconsistency of the .22 ammo. Currently my Model 70S is probably the smallest .22 that I could recommend for being extremely reliable, accurate, and very easy to shoot. It's only drawback is that as a medium frame auto it's definitely a bit on the large side for concealed carry.

guns2033_zpsab43a617.gif
 
If I were to carry a .22lr, due to a physical limitation, I'd probably go with one of the classic, tried and true model I own. My favorite is a rare Daewoo DP52, a Walther PP clone. Followed by the Walther PP itself, but the Daewoo has better sights. My Beretta 70s has never failed. I'd carry my TPH too if the hypothetical infirmity allowed. It is an excellent pistol and the easiest to conceal. I'd leave my Bersa T22 at home because it's one I don't trust as much as the others having had some failures. I recently bought a Ruger SR22 but as much as I like it, I haven't enough experience with it yet. My GSG 1911-22, though a full size gun and harder to conceal, has been another remarkably reliable and easy shooting pistol.

Except for the Daewoo, which works with any ammo, I'd stick with Mini Mag or Stingers which are very reliable rounds.
 
My wife used to carry a Bersa Firestorm 22. That thing ran like a watch with CCI mini mag ammo. Not so good with the cheap stuff, but with the high priced spread, it was good to go.

She could shoot the lights out with that little gun too. While not ideal for self-defense, it did give her something to shoot and carry that she had confidence in. When she got to the point where SHE was confident enough, she was able to graduate to a Glock 19. Now she shoots everything I've got and claims more than half of them as "HER" gun.

But in the meantime, that little Bersa, was a lot better than crying and begging, "Please don't hurt me."
 
usp9 said:
If I were to carry a .22lr, due to a physical limitation, I'd probably go with one of the classic, tried and true model I own. My favorite is a rare Daewoo DP52, a Walther PP clone. Followed by the Walther PP itself, but the Daewoo has better sights. My Beretta 70s has never failed. I'd carry my TPH too if the hypothetical infirmity allowed. It is an excellent pistol and the easiest to conceal. I'd leave my Bersa T22 at home because it's one I don't trust as much as the others having had some failures. I recently bought a Ruger SR22 but as much as I like it, I haven't enough experience with it yet. My GSG 1911-22, though a full size gun and harder to conceal, has been another remarkably reliable and easy shooting pistol.

Except for the Daewoo, which works with any ammo, I'd stick with Mini Mag or Stingers which are very reliable rounds.
Click to expand...

Is the Daewoo DP52 a triple action like the DH40? I have a DH40 and it is a real good gun. I will look into the Walther PP

Thanks to everyone I have list of guns to look into. I have not looked into compact .22s autos before and didn't think that there were really that many.
 
The Beretta Bobcat, do you have to pop up the barrel to load the first one? If it has a fail to fire can you just rack the slide to kick it out and load another?
 
Does it have to be a semi? If not then there are a few 22 LR revolvers that will work and be very reliable with quality ammo.
The true "pocket" 22's do tend to be pretty unreliable but I have a couple that are nearly perfect with the correct ammo. It took two years to find the correct ammo but the Phoenix HP-22 is 100% with one of the Federal offerings. I keep that ammo segregated for just that gun. I also change the recoil spring every 500 rounds or so.

I will 2nd the PMR-30 if they can handle the size. It is more like a full size gun but man that sucker puts some lead on target and it does it fast and LOUD. I too load mine with 20-25 rounds rather than 30.

I know the arguments and I am NOT advocating using a 22 handgun as a primary defensive weapon but, if it's all you have or all you can use then go for it. You will always see the "350 pound drug crazed assailant" and the "better than a sharp stick" arguments on both sides. A .45 often fails to stop a 350 pound druggie and a sharp stick, properly applied, has killed a lot of people over the years.
I also love the Hinckley reference that people love to throw out there. A man with no gun experience at all got off 6 shots from a cheap 22 revolver and managed to hit four targets. Reagan almost died from a freaking 22 ricochet, Brady was immediately incapacitated and was handicapped the rest of his life, and two LEOs were wounded. Not shabby for the lowly 22.
 
Fouled bore-
Both the Bobcat series and Taurus PT22 lookalikes of the Bobcat ( they look alike, but are mechanically different ) have slides that can be racked. But they're really stiff and take an extra effort to do so.
 
Fouled,

The M21A has no extractor so racking the slide does not extract an unfired cartridge. It does have "double strike" capacity meaning you can use the double action feature to give the cartridge a second or third strike. Infact trying to clear a cartridge that failed to fire by simply pulling back the slide and releasing it can cause a double feed situation.

The pistol is a true blow back and the pressure of firing pushed the spent shell out.

This is why some are very concerned about the perceived unreliability of rim fire priming especially in such small blowback pistols.

Removing an unfired cartridge as in when Cease fire is given at the range is best done on the M21A by pushing the barrel release and, if doing so does not flip the cartridge free, shaking the cartridge free or if the chamber is particularly dirty, picking with a finger nail in the feed ramp area.

One does wonder if standard gaming or Infantry combat immediate action drills have any value with any handgun at self defense ranges though. Although no range will allow you to practice it, at those ranges immediately using the pistol as a bludgeon makes more sense to me.

-kBob
 
KBob are you looking for an argument or do you really not know this information? I suggest Google or a visit to the Reagan Library in Thousand Oaks, CA if you don't already know.

Any gun that is used for self defense needs to be adequate at self defense distances which are generally within 10-15 yards and usually much closer.
 
I agree with a couple above; I have carried a Beretta M71 on numerous occasions, and I will not hesitate to do it in the future. I practice with just about any ammo in it, but I will only carry it with CCI Mini-Mags.
 
kBob said:
What ranges were the Hinkley shots fired at and what was the cheap .22 handgun? What sort of ammo was used?
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According to Wikipedia, Hinckley was about 15 feet away (maybe a bit more or less) and was using a very, very cheap Rohm RG-14 (6-shot, very short-barreled revolver firing a .22LR round). Did I say CHEAP. Look up "Saturday Night Special in the dictionary, and you probably see a picture of it...

Not my weapon of choice, and certainly NOT the weapon I'd want to use in a self-defense situation, but it almost worked far better than anyone would have expected.
 
I am not completely ruling out revolvers but feel like a semi-auto would have less recoil.

There are a lot of good guns being listed here. This gun would most likely purchased new rather than going into a LGS and trying to find an older model that is no longer being made.

The Phoenix likes like a nice size gun. How hard are they to find?
 
Just like kBob mentioned, the Beretta Bobcat has no extractor. I don't see how it could since it has a tip up barrel.

The record for my Bobcat reached for shots fired in a row with no issues was about 4 or 5 magazines worth. Normally, it could do 2 magazines in a row before I retired it.

If one considers that all they might get to use in a self defense shooting is two magazines, then the Bobcat would meet that requirement. If all went your way, you'd fire one magazine and have a reload to get you home.

However, in my experience, Bobcats get worn pretty fast. They are not high volume plinkers. Jams can have the slide ram the cartridge rim into the chamber mouth, which can ding it up. Once the chamber mouth is dinged, extraction jams are almost assured.

Plus, all the little parts are really small and don't have a lot of room to give before it is worn. Stuff like the double action sear, the slide where it engages the recoil spring levers, etc. Once that double action doesn't start firing ammo, you have to go cocked and locked for single action. Then when the slide points by the recoil levers are worn, the slide might not seat in battery consistently causing light strikes.

The point is, don't buy a used Bobcat. It is probably clapped out.
 
USAF_Vet said:
Brady has been paralyzed ever since and Reagan would have died if not for trauma surgery within minutes of the shooting. Both men were shot, a close range, and effectively stopped. Granted, neither were hopped up on drugs, but in Brady's case, it wouldn't have mattered if he was.

You point out this was at point blank range. At what distance do you expect most defensive shooting to occur?

No one should ever advocate a .22 rimfire as the best choice for self defense. I personally don't like the .380 because of the size of the gun and light weight generally makes felt recoil sharper than a 9mm. My 9mm is only slightly bigger than most .380s, with less recoil and more control.

I'd carry a .22 as a deep conceal back up piece if nothing else.

But if they are insistent on a .22 rim fire, find the right combo of gun to ammo.

With a .22 as a primary carry, I'd recommend a revolver just in case you do get a misfire. Squeeze the trigger again to cycle over to the next round. LCR in .22 or .22 mag would be a good pick.
Click to expand...
I only pointed out the Reagan and Brady incident as a close up well know attack using a 22. it wasn't the be all and end all... just a point of reference...

as far as size.. here is my Thunder .380 ACP next to my 45 ACP... they are the same size and weight, so why carry a 380 when you can carry a 45. ??? the Kimber engineering slide tolerances and recoil spring are so exacting that recoil from the Kimber is a none issue. and I 70 years old with advanced stage Cancer.( Agent Orange ) over the years, I've honed my carry skills to the point that they are much better now than they were 50 years ago... at my age and health condition, I have no problems with a 45 ACP.

45 ACP and my 380-ACP side by side..

i-vczXbrD-L.jpg

I Practice every week with my Kimber at 21 feet, standing two handed hold discipline.

i-bMGntwk-M.jpg
 
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