Are there any .5 MOA semi-auto rifles currently available?
- Thread starter theoak
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usmc1371
Member
I have a les baer in .204 and it is .5 moa no problem in fact it shoots quite a bit less than .5 if I do my part. If you are going with the grendel you may want to stock up on brass and plan on reloading if the thing dies out in a few years. I am not sure if any other company garuntees .5 moa with their AR's. I have had my LBC super varmint since 11/06 and so far I am very happy with it.
atblis
Member
I wouldn't worry about the Grendel not being around. I think it'll stick. What you do is get yourself a few hundred pieces of brass and reload. Never have to worry about it dieing.
SammyIamToday
Member
My DPMS 308 SASS.
Float Pilot
Member
I manage 0.50 inch or slightly less groups with a 6.8mm SPC Stag Model 5. That is with certain handloads.
My neighbor down the road has a heavy barreled Stag AR in 5.56mm that shoots very tight groups with 60 to 69 grain bullets.
My old M1A Super Match will shoot sub half inch groups with most handloads.
Plus I have seen more than a few AR-10 type clones, that will shoot half inch groups at 100 yards or even better with the right ammo and shooter.
My neighbor down the road has a heavy barreled Stag AR in 5.56mm that shoots very tight groups with 60 to 69 grain bullets.
My old M1A Super Match will shoot sub half inch groups with most handloads.
Plus I have seen more than a few AR-10 type clones, that will shoot half inch groups at 100 yards or even better with the right ammo and shooter.
The Wiry Irishman
Member
Lloyd Smale
Member
like was said a properly built ar15 or ar10 will shoot with most any bolt gun anymore and its to the point where if i was looking for a sub moa gun and bought 10 ars and 10 bolt guns from differnt manufactures id about be the ars would outshoot the bolts. especially when you consider the size of the barrel. compare standard weight ars with standard weight bolt guns and Id bet the ars would win every time.
les baer and dpms both have a reputation for accuracy. it's probably not fair to expect every sample that leaves their factories to meet the 1/2moa target, but a fair number of them certainly do.
to be sure, it would suck to wait 5 months for a rifle to be delivered and find out you got one that didn't meet your expectations. but short of ordering 10 and selling the other 9, I'm not sure what your options are
to be sure, it would suck to wait 5 months for a rifle to be delivered and find out you got one that didn't meet your expectations. but short of ordering 10 and selling the other 9, I'm not sure what your options are
Titan6
member
Since it is available how much do you want for it?
usmc1371
Member
My les baer came with two "test targets" both with two very small groups along the lines of .394 or some thing like that. I know I laughed at them until I had the rifle at the range with a good bench. Then I just smiled and felt all warm and fuzzy inside.
Float Pilot
Member
WardenWolf
member
Some PSL's can do it. Not all, but some.
Here's a list of what I have considered so far:
-DPMS LR-308: Wait time of 1 year+, $1,900 with options. Unsure of accuracy.
-Armalite AR-10T: Shipping end of 2009, $1,892, 1 MOA.
-Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308: 25 week wait, $2,500, 1 MOA.
-Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint: 12 week wait, $2,500, .5 MOA.
-DSA Inc. SA-58 w/ 21" bull barrel: $1,850, unsure of accuracy or wait time.
-LWRC SABR - Shipping July 2009, $3,000, unsure of accuracy.
-Fulton Armory Titan: $2,800 w/ options, unsure of accuracy or wait time.
I already have a Colt .223 with a 16" POF upper, and a .308 PTR-91. I wanted to purchase the most accurate rifle at a reasonable price (some rifles cost $1,000 more without any gain in accuracy). I was also concerned about magazine and ammunition availability.
I was leaning towards the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel because of the .5 MOA guarantee and only a 12 week wait. C-Products has 25 round Grendel magazines available (although Midway doesn't seem to have any 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock). The 6.5mm Grendel round would offer increased range and accuracy over a .223 with the same size rifle, and only 5 less rounds per magazine.
Are there any .308's with a .5 MOA guarantee, under $3,000, with a wait time less than 4 months, and with readily available magazines? I would buy a .308 over the 6.5 if I could find one with those characteristics.
-DPMS LR-308: Wait time of 1 year+, $1,900 with options. Unsure of accuracy.
-Armalite AR-10T: Shipping end of 2009, $1,892, 1 MOA.
-Patriot Ordnance Factory P-308: 25 week wait, $2,500, 1 MOA.
-Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel Super Varmint: 12 week wait, $2,500, .5 MOA.
-DSA Inc. SA-58 w/ 21" bull barrel: $1,850, unsure of accuracy or wait time.
-LWRC SABR - Shipping July 2009, $3,000, unsure of accuracy.
-Fulton Armory Titan: $2,800 w/ options, unsure of accuracy or wait time.
I already have a Colt .223 with a 16" POF upper, and a .308 PTR-91. I wanted to purchase the most accurate rifle at a reasonable price (some rifles cost $1,000 more without any gain in accuracy). I was also concerned about magazine and ammunition availability.
I was leaning towards the Les Baer 6.5mm Grendel because of the .5 MOA guarantee and only a 12 week wait. C-Products has 25 round Grendel magazines available (although Midway doesn't seem to have any 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock). The 6.5mm Grendel round would offer increased range and accuracy over a .223 with the same size rifle, and only 5 less rounds per magazine.
Are there any .308's with a .5 MOA guarantee, under $3,000, with a wait time less than 4 months, and with readily available magazines? I would buy a .308 over the 6.5 if I could find one with those characteristics.
Kind of Blued
Member
Do you have a decent AR? Putting a high-quality barrel on it would get you a long way.
I also noticed that you didn't say how far you're going to be shooting it. At certain distances, the cartridge's capabilities will become more important than the quality of the gun.
I also noticed that you didn't say how far you're going to be shooting it. At certain distances, the cartridge's capabilities will become more important than the quality of the gun.
SimpleIsGood229
Member
The Bushmaster Varminter has an excellent reputation for accuracy.
For the .223 I have a Colt Sporter lower with a 16" Patriot Ordnance Factory gas-piston upper and an Eotech scope. I also have a .308 PTR-91 with iron sights...buying 25 magazines for $50 was awesome. 
I wanted something larger than a .223, and more accurate than the PTR-91for 250+ yards.
I was hoping to get another rifle before the Mexican drug cartels buy all of them up.
I wanted something larger than a .223, and more accurate than the PTR-91for 250+ yards.
I was hoping to get another rifle before the Mexican drug cartels buy all of them up.
Well, I was going to say that .5" with a semi-auto rifle is asking a lot but it seems that everyone and his brother has one that can do it. What do I know?
If you guys are shooting .5" groups with autos, what are the bolt guns (you know, the ones that are SUPPOSED to be accurate) shooting?
If you guys are shooting .5" groups with autos, what are the bolt guns (you know, the ones that are SUPPOSED to be accurate) shooting?
Pulse
Member
Bolt guns shoot one hole groups at 4000+ meters, with Wolf factory ammo.
if yours does not, might want to place a complain with the factory that built that worthless rifle.
Saxon,
If you notice, the semi's that are shooting those groups are on the AR platform.
A stock AR is accurate, but there are MANY changes that can be made to the AR platform to create a truly precision semi-auto.
Routinely, custom ARs are holding their own against bolt-actions. Its no wonder that the military has adopted the KNS SR-25 as a new military sniper rifle.
Bolt actions are usually accurate out-of-the-box. Semi-autos are not usually as accurate as bolt-actions out-of-the-box.
However, when you are willing to toss a decent chunk of money at the issue and then practice, you can compete against a bolt-action with an AR.
I've got around $2K in my LR-308 and another $1.2K in my optics.
It's done plenty of sub-.5" groups-- one 5-shot group at 3/8".
But you know what? I had a Remington 700 ADL that wasn't much worse using a 30 year old Redfield tracker fixed 4X at a fraction of the cost.
If you compare apples to apples out-of-the-box, bolt actions will more than likely always be more accurate. But it is out-dated and old-world thinking to believe that today's custom AR platform semi-autos can't compete with a turn-bolt-- expecially a stock one.
-- John
If you notice, the semi's that are shooting those groups are on the AR platform.
A stock AR is accurate, but there are MANY changes that can be made to the AR platform to create a truly precision semi-auto.
Routinely, custom ARs are holding their own against bolt-actions. Its no wonder that the military has adopted the KNS SR-25 as a new military sniper rifle.
Bolt actions are usually accurate out-of-the-box. Semi-autos are not usually as accurate as bolt-actions out-of-the-box.
However, when you are willing to toss a decent chunk of money at the issue and then practice, you can compete against a bolt-action with an AR.
I've got around $2K in my LR-308 and another $1.2K in my optics.
It's done plenty of sub-.5" groups-- one 5-shot group at 3/8".
But you know what? I had a Remington 700 ADL that wasn't much worse using a 30 year old Redfield tracker fixed 4X at a fraction of the cost.
If you compare apples to apples out-of-the-box, bolt actions will more than likely always be more accurate. But it is out-dated and old-world thinking to believe that today's custom AR platform semi-autos can't compete with a turn-bolt-- expecially a stock one.
-- John
Jim Watson
Member
I think my Colt-Krieger AR is the most accurate rifle I own. Certainly equal to anything else in the house.
At the cutting edge, the bolt actions are still more accurate (and they don't throw your brass in the weeds) but if you look at the Tubb 2000 and the Eliseo and MAK "tubeguns" you will see that the bolt gunners have learned from the ARs.
At the cutting edge, the bolt actions are still more accurate (and they don't throw your brass in the weeds) but if you look at the Tubb 2000 and the Eliseo and MAK "tubeguns" you will see that the bolt gunners have learned from the ARs.
R.W.Dale
Member
LOLOLOLOLOL!
I think this thread needs a heavy dosage of reality check
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5192880#post5192880
particularly rule number ONE and TWO
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