Are you on the secret terrorist watch list? McCarthy introduces "no fly. no buy" bill

[LickitySplit]

We all know her reputation WRT gun control laws, but she's beyond pushing the envelope with this one.

Reps. McCarthy and Israel to Stand with Law Enforcement and Announce ‘No Fly, No Buy' Act Today
Wednesday May 13, 2009

McCarthy and Israel to introduce bill to keep guns out of terrorists’ hands and to keep cops safe



Washington, DC—Today, May 13, 2009 at 11:00 a.m. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (NY-04) and Steve Israel (NY-02) will host a press conference to announce the introduction of the No Fly, No Buy Act, which seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns. At the event, Reps. McCarthy and Israel will be flanked by law enforcement officials and will be joined by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence to highlight the importance of keeping guns out of the hands of people that are known or suspected terrorists and their continued commitment to fighting to strengthen gun violence prevention laws that protect police and our communities.



Under current law, terrorist watch list checks are not part of the Brady background check process, because being a suspected or known terrorist was and is not a disqualifying factor for firearm transfer/possession eligibility. The No Fly No Buy Act seeks to correct this serious loophole in our nation’s gun laws.



“For far too long, the ‘terror gap’ has left a wide open loophole in our nation’s gun safety laws that could allow terrorist to acquire guns the same way any law abiding citizen can. The No Fly, No Buy Act uses existing TSA data to update the NICS system with the names of known or suspected terrorists to disqualify them from passing the Brady Background Check. This is a common sense gun bill that will prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands,” said Rep. McCarthy.



“Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every Member of Congress. It’s common sense legislation. I’m proud to be introducing this bill with Congresswoman McCarthy. She’s on a mission to end gun violence in this country, and for as long as I’ve been in Congress I’ve been proud to support her in those efforts,” said Rep. Steve Israel.



Newly released FBI data documents 230 occasions in 2006 where persons on the violent gang and terrorist watch list were able to purchase guns. Furthermore, in January 2005, the GAO reported that in a five-month period—February 3, 2004 through June 30, 2004—NICS checks resulted in an estimated 650 terrorist-related record hits in their databases. Of these, 44 were found to be valid. However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.



Since 9-11, Congress has passed many laws to improve homeland security. Yet, this loophole remains open. If someone is denied the chance to board an airplane because of suspected ties to terrorists, then they should also be denied the opportunity to purchase a gun. Individuals with ties to terrorists have bought guns in the past and used them to kill Americans. Some notable incidents:



In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On December 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.



On February 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.



On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a "street sweeper" shotgun.



On November 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.



Reps. Carolyn McCarthy Steve Israel will introduce the No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009. The bill seeks to close the terror gap. The bill amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit: (1) the sale or other disposition of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an individual required to be prevented from boarding an aircraft; and (2) the shipment, transport, possession, or receipt of a firearm or ammunition by such individuals.

http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/?sectionid=155&sectiontree=189,155&itemid=1038

 

[TexasRifleman]

We all know her reputation WRT gun control laws, but she's beyond pushing the envelope with this one.

The good news is that she's seen as a lunatic even by many in her own party.

This one is going to have a very tough time getting any traction I think.

Certainly have to watch out for it but it seems she does these yearly just to ensure the Brady campaign donations keep flowing. She was promising to re-introduce an AWB soon also, probably another HR1022 like thing.

 

[Logan5]

Hah, they're going to deprive Ted Kennedy of his rights without due process of law?

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...les/2006/07/21/the_terrorist_batting_average/

The federal government has inflated the ``No Fly List" to 200,000 names. But the list has nabbed more members of Congress than it has terrorists. US Senator Edward M. Kennedy and US Representative John Lewis have been inconvenienced by it, and anyone named David Nelson is likely to face a major interrogation each time he flies. Federal officials make it very difficult to correct the list, thus tormenting citizens who are guilty of nothing more than having a name resembling a name suspected sometime by some government official.

 

[LickitySplit]

The good news is that she's seen as a lunatic even by many in her own party.

True, but it's disheartening that she somehow managed to "persuade"/ sway Kirsten Gillibrand to the dark side.

Not that I had full faith in Gillibrand to begin with, but going from an NRA "A" rating to a McCarthy boot licker shows that the hag does have some influence.

Maybe not such a big deal a few years ago, but right now we need every vote in Congress we can get.

 

[tkopp]

Yeah, you can't remove my civil rights for something I'm suspected of. I don't care if you're conservative or liberal, that's pretty chilling. Can I also deny 200k Americans their first amendment rights for going to rallies, buying agricultural fertilizer, attending certain churches? How about the 14th amendment?

If you're worried about foreign nationals, don't be. You have to be a citizen or have special dispensation to buy a gun. This is a bill targeting American citizens. People born and raised here, or who have passed background checks and obtained jobs and been naturalized. It won't pass. And if something like it did, the supreme court would throw it out immediately. There's a reason appointees stay up there for life -- to be guardians of the constitution irrespective of whatever's popular this election cycle.

 

[ArmedBear]

I thought there were no more terrorists, just man-caused disasters.

 

[zxcvbob]

True, but it's disheartening that she somehow managed to "persuade"/ sway Kirsten Gillibrand to the dark side. Not that I had full faith in Gillibrand to begin with, but going from an NRA "A" rating to a McCarthy boot licker shows that the hag does have some influence.

Do you have any evidence of this, or just that one article at PrisonPlanet?

 

[TexasRifleman]

True, but it's disheartening that she somehow managed to "persuade"/ sway Kirsten Gillibrand to the dark side.

Well, there are a lot of politics at play there. McCarthy has talked about running against Gillibrand so there is a game at work here outside of gun rights.

 

[LickitySplit]

Do you have any evidence of this, or just that one article at PrisonPlanet?

Evidence of what?

McCarthys stranglehold on Gillibrand and her sudden conversion?

Or did I miss something else?

I never heard or read of this "Prison Planet" reference.

 

[Hostile Amish]

The fact that these people overlook is that most firearms used in crimes are not bought legally.

Let's see you control THAT, Washington.

 

[MarineOne]

I love the fact that the last bill she introduced was HR 1022. It's ironic that it's also the model number of one of the "assault weapons" that would have been considered under the ban.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022



Kris

 

[heviarti]

McCarthy-ism all over again.

 

[foghornl]

How about a new law?

No sense, no seat in Congress...but wait. That would leave the place empty.....................Hmmm not such a bad idea, methinks

 

[feedthehogs]

Kirsten Gillibrand

Don't put a lot of faith in those NRA ratings. Since most published are from the survey form politicians either request or are sent, anything can be put down.

As a former NRA-EVC I worked real hard to correct many A ratings given to anti gun politicians. Unfortunatly by the time we saw them they were already printed in the NRA magazines. This is why people have to check actual track records sometimes going back to small town stuff if the politicians is a local or junior member.

Don't depend on the NRA to do your work for you. While Kirsten has advocated gun rights, it seems its really only hunter oriented as her support for expanded hunting land showed. We all know supporting hunters doesn't mean gun rights for everyone.

After she replaced Hilary, she immediatly started talking about sensible gun laws with the likes of Al Sharpton. McCarthy from what I've seen hasn't "turned" her. She was there all the time even though she considers herself a Centrist Democrat. If you look at her background and liberal education, it doesn't really surprise me at least.

As an avid hunter and all around gun owner I really hate the politicians who try to push themselves off as pro gun when they are pro hunter. We all know how that attitude and Jim Zumbo worked out.

Legislation like this is based on reasonable suspicion whos definition has no definition. Its like playing a game with no rules.

 

[everallm]

The bill is HR 2401 and has precisely one co-sponsor.

Her previous bill

H.R.1646 : To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow a credit against income tax for the purchase of hearing aids.

has 69 co-sponsors.

This bill is a pure vanity bill and will join HR 45 and die sad and lonely by being ignored to death.

 

[Ed Ames]

I'm surprised at the response here.

It is shameful that America would maintain a secret list of people who, without due process or any of the other constitutionally guaranteed protections, are to have their rights infringed upon. Your right to travel and engage in commerce (buy airline tickets and use them) can be taken away secretly and there is nothing you can do to get them back? How much more unconstitutional can you get? It is not only shameful, it puts each and every person who is in the sphere of American influence (which today means just about everyone on the planet) in a dangerous position. We are less free, and less safe, while the no-fly list exists.

That apparently needs to be made clearer. It seems like people here, for example, just don't get it -- just don't understand how bad it is. So how do you do that? We have a practice which is already clearly unconstitutional, but is apparently accepted, how do you make it obvious just how bad it is?

Perhaps the only way to get some light shone upon it is to have it clearly and obviously infringe on one of the enumerated rights.

I suspect that's exactly what this bill is intended to do. To take down a clearly unconstitutional secret non-judicial punishment system by making its unconstitutional nature obvious to everyone. The possibility that it might inconvenience gun owners is just gravy for the authors -- they don't like gun owners, see gun owners as the people who caused the no fly list in the first place, and think the possibility of actually doing gun owners some harm is a nice fringe benefit... but it isn't the main thrust.

Or maybe they're crazy and think the no-fly list is a good thing...who can say these days?

 

[zxcvbob]

I suspect that's exactly what this bill is intended to do. To take down a clearly unconstitutional secret non-judicial punishment system by making its unconstitutional nature obvious to everyone. The possibility that it might inconvenience gun owners is just gravy for the authors

You give her way too much credit. McCarthy is a one-issue politician, and she may or may not like the No Fly list (who knows), but she sees it as a useful tool to beat gun owners over the head with.

You may be right that this has the unintended (but good this time) consequence of getting the No Fly list into the courts and thrown out.

 

[TexasRifleman]

You may be right that this has the unintended (but good this time) consequence of getting the No Fly list into the courts and thrown out.

Not from her. Anyone else I might think it possible, but not her.

 

[zxcvbob]

That's why I said unintended.

 

[TexasRifleman]

That's why I said unintended.

Oh yeah, I agree with ya. Might end up that way but she sure wouldn't do it on purpose. She's Eeeeevil

 

[Ed Ames]

Nothing happens in a vacuum and I'd be amazed if someone didn't go through the possible outcomes and determine that this was a "no lose" for them.

 

[TexasRifleman]

The danger here is trying to apply any logic to this woman.

Remember this is the woman that introduces some anti gun legislation EVERY SESSION.

She truly does work in a vacuum. She is disliked by pretty much everyone, her own party included. She rarely gets any cosponsors for her legislation, she's truly a train wreck.

But, the Brady Bunch back her 100% financially because she does their bidding pretty much all the time. You rarely see her at a press conference without someone from Brady Campaign standing there with her.

She knows where the money flows from. One Democratic leaning magazine published an article saying that she introduces legislation pretty much as a "fund raising" effort.

Read up on her. She truly is a one trick pony.

 

[mbt2001]

Everyone admits that there are people on the no-fly list that do not belong there... and there is no way to get them off...

 

[blakeci]

There are alot of people who have had their rights taken away because they had a name similiar to someone on the terror list. These people can't buy cars, fly, buy a house etc. It is ridiculous. So some guy named John Smith gets put on the terror list, and the other 300,000 people named John Smith have their rights taken away? There should be an easy process to verify if you are THE John Smith or not.

 

[22-rimfire]

On the surface, denying the purchase of a firearm to someone on the "No fly" list seems reasonable. But who decides who is on the list and how do you absolutely identify them? As mentioned above, how do you get off the list and how do you fight when your rights are infringed upon without spending $1000's on a court case. What is to stop the govenment from putting every member of this forum on the "No fly" list or everyone identified as a right wing extremist? I say NO to the legislation.